Republican Senate Candidate Roy Moore accused of making sexual advances to young women ...


O'Sullivan Bere

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DE belongs to a group that Moore dislikes almost as much as he dislikes black people.
Of course. Not only does Moore want them hunted and purged under the law as deviants, he's to blame for 9.11 as 'God's punishment' for granting legalisation and equality.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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I am glad you give Shelby some credit. The move was not without risks, almost the entire state GOP apparatus got heartily behind Moore, after he won the run off.

Shelby is 83 and just won re election in 2016, so its very possible he may not run again in 2022 but as you note he did the right thing here.
Yep...he gets credit for doing the right thing, and it's another example that doing the right thing is also in your self-interests too time and time again.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Trump isnt a religious fanatic unlike Moore. And Trumps interest seems to be in adult women not underage. Furthermore Trump is denying the allegations. Trump didnt call for homosexuality to be banned (though I oppose the tg ban in the military - the courts are blocking it) unlike Moore.
It's a distinction without a difference here. He's had no problem whatsoever applying the cynical "Paris is worth a Mass" mantra except unlike Henry IV that enacted the Edict of Nantes for toleration, Trump has chosen to cynically empower the Religious Right in exchange for support and otherwise flame bait on all the classic BS like the fake 'War on Xmas' and the Religious Right's desires to God-bother in the laws and collect tax benefits and cash.

He just backed a candidate that wants you hunted and expurgated and blames you for 9.11.

He picked Mike Pence--a complete Religious Right fanatic that thinks the same about gays--as his VP FFS to pander along those lines, so quit trying to sell sh!t as gold.

Oh, and Trump denied the piles of credible allegations, corroborating and refuting photo and record evidence, and his own admissions, etc? Whew...make sure you tell every criminal defence counsel and accused that one before jury selection. Hell, why not tell all the police to pack it in every time a suspect says he or she didn't do it.

And yes, that includes minors, including but not limited to admitting entering teen dressing rooms for his own lascivious purposes, making endless creepy sexual statements about his own daughter, etc.
 
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Sync

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Moore was terrible and simply looking at a 51-49 result and trying to extrapolate what that means at midterms is pointless. He’s just such an outlier in so many ways as a candidate that you can’t say “Trump’s done” or “Trump’s electoral tricks are done”.

What this was lost on ultimately, if you go back to the root cause, is turnout and selection. And that goes back to a GOP party at odds with its own president and at war with the alt right.

In 2014 Sessions got more votes than either of these guys and he wasn’t opposed. Think about that. 790k people showed up to vote in a one man election. Mugabe would like those numbers.

In 2008 Figures lost with only 35% of the vote and she got nearly 100k MORE votes than Jones did this time.

Jones is not a loved candidate. He’s not a liked candidate. The real message here is that if you keep letting Bannon pick your candidates, you’re screwed.
 

Betson

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Jones is not a loved candidate. He’s not a liked candidate. The real message here is that if you keep letting Bannon pick your candidates, you’re screwed.
The problem for the GOP is that their congressional leaders are detested by a lot of their grassroots , these days in many areas telling a GOP audience you are going to make life hell for Mitch McConnell etc will raise you a lot more cheers than anything else , Bannon is feeding on this.

One of the few positives for the GOP out of this fiasco is that Bannon is greatly weakened by it.
 

NYCKY

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The problem for the GOP is that their congressional leaders are detested by a lot of their grassroots , these days in many areas telling a GOP audience you are going to make life hell for Mitch McConnell etc will raise you a lot more cheers than anything else , Bannon is feeding on this.

One of the few positives for the GOP out of this fiasco is that Bannon is greatly weakened by it.
That last part is crucial, it will be a wake up call/reminder to the GOP to not nominate fruit cake candidate in the primary, that can't win in a general election.
 

Sync

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That last part is crucial, it will be a wake up call/reminder to the GOP to not nominate fruit cake candidate in the primary, that can't win in a general election.
And Trump is so binary in his approach that he won’t get it. If Moore had won this by 50.1%, to the national picture it doesn’t matter. In all of the recent special elections, win or lose: The Dems are overperforming. That shouldn’t matter in a state like Alabama where overperformance is only losing by 10% typically, it matters in the upcoming tossup campaigns.

Alabama really is the outlier here. The dems absolutely didn’t over perform, the gop catastrophically underperformed.
 

NYCKY

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And Trump is so binary in his approach that he won’t get it. If Moore had won this by 50.1%, to the national picture it doesn’t matter. In all of the recent special elections, win or lose: The Dems are overperforming. That shouldn’t matter in a state like Alabama where overperformance is only losing by 10% typically, it matters in the upcoming tossup campaigns.
I agree with you. The Dems overperformed in all of the special elections this year, particularly in red places like Georgia and Montana, but they kept coming up short. The Virginia Governors race, usually won by the opposite party of the White House, couldn't be described as on outlier either, neither could recapturing the New Jersey Governors mansion, well it's a blue state and like Virginia it is usually captured by the opposition after a Presidential victory.

Despite all that, you can no longer ignore the trend, one offs here and there, the close races, the oh so nears, etc, but losing a safe red Senate seat, that Trump was personally invested in... even if it was against a very flawed nominee..... It's time for a rethink/refocus at the very very top.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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The problem for the GOP is that their congressional leaders are detested by a lot of their grassroots , these days in many areas telling a GOP audience you are going to make life hell for Mitch McConnell etc will raise you a lot more cheers than anything else , Bannon is feeding on this.

One of the few positives for the GOP out of this fiasco is that Bannon is greatly weakened by it.
Let's not get too fooled by the fringe noise makers. They make more racket than they represent. Further, a good many of them--except the wind up merchants profiting on them like Bannon--aren't the ones with the money and connections.

What they will do is keep staining and straining the brand, and they've done a superb job of that especially by killing the brand with the younger generations. It's finally jumped the shark and the show should have been reigned in awhile ago.
 
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O'Sullivan Bere

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I agree with you. The Dems overperformed in all of the special elections this year, particularly in red places like Georgia and Montana, but they kept coming up short. The Virginia Governors race, usually won by the opposite party of the White House, couldn't be described as on outlier either, neither could recapturing the New Jersey Governors mansion, well it's a blue state and like Virginia it is usually captured by the opposition after a Presidential victory.

Despite all that, you can no longer ignore the trend, one offs here and there, the close races, the oh so nears, etc, but losing a safe red Senate seat, that Trump was personally invested in... even if it was against a very flawed nominee..... It's time for a rethink/refocus at the very very top.
The Dems came very close in deep red House areas. They shouldn't even be within a whiff in such areas. They're holding easy in blue areas and winning in swing areas like VA and, when a POS candidate is put up in places like deep red AL, that's the break they need to get a pick up there too.

That's a very big change in just one year, and that's why the Kool Aid and troll crowd needs to be taken by the nose very strongly and without fear. What are they going to do? Vote Dem? Run away? Some might sit out, but most won't. They're addicted to the game and tribally GOP and want to win over the Dems. It's simply disciplining an unruly child. They'll pout, but they know who feathers their nest and shape up accordingly.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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And Trump is so binary in his approach that he won’t get it. If Moore had won this by 50.1%, to the national picture it doesn’t matter. In all of the recent special elections, win or lose: The Dems are overperforming. That shouldn’t matter in a state like Alabama where overperformance is only losing by 10% typically, it matters in the upcoming tossup campaigns.

Alabama really is the outlier here. The dems absolutely didn’t over perform, the gop catastrophically underperformed.
The Dems overperformed there whilst the GOP underperformed. Don't underestimate the enthusiasm and abilities of the Dems to do that, and the more extreme the GOP gets, the more that's likely.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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That last part is crucial, it will be a wake up call/reminder to the GOP to not nominate fruit cake candidate in the primary, that can't win in a general election.
It's been there before...Christine O'Donnell, Mourdock, Aiken, etc. It's been hard of hearing on that one.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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The problem for the GOP is that their congressional leaders are detested by a lot of their grassroots , these days in many areas telling a GOP audience you are going to make life hell for Mitch McConnell etc will raise you a lot more cheers than anything else , Bannon is feeding on this.

One of the few positives for the GOP out of this fiasco is that Bannon is greatly weakened by it.
Agreed on the second part on Bannon.

And yes, GOP leaders are detested right now, but the reasons differ. The extremists are simply that, but there's major unhappiness with the bulk of the rest of the GOP base with the establishment for not taking the extremes to task. Ryan is detested for being complicit and spineless for example when addressing the extremes, and McConnell That also gives them the weasel assessment, which is worse. It needs a leader willing to do a clean up in Aisle 4.
 

Sync

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The Dems overperformed there whilst the GOP underperformed. Don't underestimate the enthusiasm and abilities of the Dems to do that, and the more extreme the GOP gets, the more that's likely.
Jones got 100k less votes than the dem in 2008 who was doa and she only got 35%. They in no way overperformed here. A sackcloth with GOP painted on it would have won this election for the republicans.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Here's another no-brainer IMO. How the hell--and the left is likewise in default on this one--have the white supremacist movement been allowed to remarket themselves as the 'Alt-Right'?

They're white supremacists. That's it. No other term is acceptable. These types are always trying to repackage themselves into respectability. Your past Klansmen and tattooed white supremacist outlaw biker gang leader now repackages themselves like Richard Spencer, etc, and pulls their punches with dog whistling, etc. And types like Bannon make their money off them by being their demagogic media man. Unfortunately Trump and others have also played ball with these types.

There should be none of that. It's too obvious now, and it won't get votes that aren't already in the bank, and stand to lose ones they could have had.
 

O'Sullivan Bere

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Jones got 100k less votes than the dem in 2008 who was doa and she only got 35%. They in no way overperformed here. A sackcloth with GOP painted on it would have won this election for the republicans.
Sessions was an incumbent. It was a Presidential year. And let's be frank...it's Alabama, a top tier red state. The Dems didn't even bother to run anyone against Sessions the last time.

But they got their stuff together this time because the GOP put up such an OTT candidate that they saw a chance for once to get a win, so they took it and got a win.

As I said, it took two factors to win, not just one (Dem turnout). But give the devil his due, the Dems did their part.

Here's the real lesson IMO that needs also to be recognised. In places like Alabama, the GOP has benefited from a sense of futility by the Dems that led to the recklessness, greed and arrogance of overreaching and excusing extra bad sh!t with someone like Moore.

Beforehand, the GOP could get away with more than they should because the Dems didn't invest in it, organise well in it, or bother to vote as they should, etc, because the outcomes were seen as predetermined.

That's likely not the case now, thanks to this GOP gaffe. I don't expect the Dems there to think they'll make it competitive anytime soon, but now they're in the habit of at least running, and looking for pickups on the local, state, and federal level where they can obtain an opening thanks to toxic overreaches and candidates. And guess what? The past slack on GOP candidates that got away with it? That's no longer such a sure thing now.

That's the cost of pushing the limit too far.
 

Sync

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Sessions was an incumbent. It was a Presidential year. And let's be frank...it's Alabama, a top tier red state. The Dems didn't even bother to run anyone against Sessions the last time.

But they got their stuff together this time because the GOP put up such an OTT candidate that they saw a chance for once to get a win, so they took it and got a win.

As I said, it took two factors to win, not just one (Dem turnout). But give the devil his due, the Dems did their part.
The point is they didn’t do their part. In 2008 Sessions was incumbent. He was a certainty to win. He won with 65% of the vote. His opponent got 750k votes in that doomed election.

Flash forward to 2017, the Dems eek out a win against a guy with weird views on gays blacks Jews and underage girls, in a much tighter race, they get 670k votes.

That’s not getting your vote out.
 

owedtojoy

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The point is they didn’t do their part. In 2008 Sessions was incumbent. He was a certainty to win. He won with 65% of the vote. His opponent got 750k votes in that doomed election.

Flash forward to 2017, the Dems eek out a win against a guy with weird views on gays blacks Jews and underage girls, in a much tighter race, they get 670k votes.

That’s not getting your vote out.
It was not how many turned out, it is who turned out.

More minority voters turned out to vote for Jones than usual. That give him the platform to win.

Also, special elections are different animals - turnout is usually down on national elections.
 

owedtojoy

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Jones got 100k less votes than the dem in 2008 who was doa and she only got 35%. They in no way overperformed here. A sackcloth with GOP painted on it would have won this election for the republicans.
Instead of that, they went for the candidate selected for them by Steve "Bring on the Hate" Bannon.

They can follow Bannon, his culture warriors and white supremacists and they may even have a few wins like Trump. But it is not going to add to the cohesion and happiness of the USA.
 
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