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Response to prolonged rail or bus strikes-compulsory arbitration or the sack? Or cave in and invite public sector wage contagion?

patslatt

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Response to prolonged rail or bus strikes-compulsory arbitration or the sack? Or cave in and invite public sector wage contagion?

See Rail, bus strikes on the cards, say unions - Independent.ie The quasi-private sector Luas driver wage settlement,which apparently was a tradeoff for massive productivity concessions, has triggered jealous demands for similar pay increases in the public sector bus and rail unions. With inflation near zero in the eurozone and Ireland,the pay demands amount to maybe an extra ten years of pay increases, an absurd demand that could invite contagion in pay across the entire public sector.

An unstable government coalition might be tempted to cave in to the pay demands,maybe funding pay by starving transport of new buses and railway rolling stock. More likely, the government would allow the public to suffer intolerable industrial actions and strikes that will cause enormous disruption to the economy.

At a certain stage, public anger at strikes might give the government confidence to legislate compulsory arbitration on the pay negotiations. That would anger union militants who would defy a back to work order, so the legislation would need to impose arbitrary dismissals on any workers who defied the order whether through pickets or working to rule.

While this might seem drastic, the overpaid and overpensioned public sector's right to strike should be seen as a sacred cow that should not be allowed to interfere with people's right to travel freely.

Postscript August 8th http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/commuters-in-capital-facing-chaos-as-bus-strikes-loom-34946596.html
 
Last edited:


storybud1

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Oct 25, 2011
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It is a public service mostly and cannot really expand or grow and therefore it must be relative to the public needs. This separates it from a private company and remuneration must be reasonable considering it will be subsidised from the public purse. Any un-reasonable demands should be treated like they are, the unions justifying their existence by being the fooking assh0les most of them are.

Why not sell Coffee/breakfast bars/ Cheap Wifi on the buses in the morning, why not assure paying passengers that no sh1t from junkies and assh0les will be tolerated and get more people back on the buses ?
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

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Lols at inflation being near zero. There are statistics and the real world
 

making waves

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patslatt's daily bash the public sector / bash trade unions thread.

And he had this one up a few weeks ago - he should go and post his drivel there instead of clogging up the board with new threads.
 

Roll_On

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Inflation may be pretty low but the cost of renting or buying a home has gone through the roof, at least in areas where there is public transport.

That being said, luas drivers are already being paid far above what their skillset commands. Their counterparts in Manchester trams operate a more complicated machine and get £19,000 per year for doing so. Rents/House prices might be slightly cheaper in Manchester but it's not that cheap.

Over the next few years CIÉ is heading towards profitability with an improved freight offering on the cards, a huge upturn in passenger numbers, the government is funding construction of better infrastructure, e.g. the Hazelhatch-Portlaoise track upgrade, the resignaling project and the Phoenix Park tunnel project, all of which will bring in more customers. Then you have the planned office/apartment complexes at Connolly, Tara Street and Horgan's Quay, of which 10% of the rent roll will go to CIE for the next 300 years.

The question is what will CIE do with that profitability? improve the frequency of it's services? fund construction of better infrastructure? or pay hikes for the management/staff?
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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My reactionary chum has come up with a novel idea, no one has ever thought of that before I'm sure.
 

sic transit

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Inflation may be pretty low but the cost of renting or buying a home has gone through the roof, at least in areas where there is public transport.

That being said, luas drivers are already being paid far above what their skillset commands. Their counterparts in Manchester trams operate a more complicated machine and get £19,000 per year for doing so. Rents/House prices might be slightly cheaper in Manchester but it's not that cheap.

Over the next few years CIÉ is heading towards profitability with an improved freight offering on the cards, a huge upturn in passenger numbers, the government is funding construction of better infrastructure, e.g. the Hazelhatch-Portlaoise track upgrade, the resignaling project and the Phoenix Park tunnel project, all of which will bring in more customers. Then you have the planned office/apartment complexes at Connolly, Tara Street and Horgan's Quay, of which 10% of the rent roll will go to CIE for the next 300 years.

The question is what will CIE do with that profitability? improve the frequency of it's services? fund construction of better infrastructure? or pay hikes for the management/staff?
Where pay increases go was set by the aggressive militancy of the CE group of unions back in the 70s and 80s and the automatic pay parity that ensued from any negotiation. What is more likely is that the subvention will be reduced and in the case of bus services, the very big stick of private operator competition is lurking. In short, unions no longer have the same clout to bully the public or politicians. As for stability well that really doesn't matter so much. Ross is no different than Pascal or Leo in his attitude and even with a FF minister, there is unlikely to ever be a return to the Bertie free cash for the PS days.
 

SeanieFitz

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Pat makes me smile with his rhetoric, "impose arbitrary dismissals on any workers"..."invite contagion in pay across the entire public sector" blah blah blah. Having read Pat's latest anti union diatribe one would think that we were in an era of massive worker unrest, daily strikes, militant action
When in the real world there has been little industrial action over the past 10 or so years even though middle/lower class workers have suffered significant pay cuts, reduced terms and conditions, levies, increased productivity, embargo on recruitment, reduced OT and allowances, increased workload etc etc etc Workers have dug this country out of the hole it was in, workers have paid the price for the mismanagement of this economy and workers are entitled to payback and you know what they say about payback.....its a bit ch!
SIPTU has negotiated pay increases for its members with over 800 businesses/companies over the past 18 months or so. The middle/lower class has been squeezed to the point of explosion and they cannot take anymore. We may be entering a period of industrial unrest however when you see the employer organisations calling for the establishment of a "social partnership" model I expect that the industrial action will be minimal.
Mr Motivator Pat overreacting yet again
 

Analyzer

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Surely if the problem in the state sector is lack of enthusiasm, Patshat should offer his services for free to motivate the employees ?

In my opinion the problem in the state sector is leadership. A persistent tendency amongst Brussels Bloc politicians to stick useless lazy cronies, donors, canvassers, & failed politicians into executive positions in the state system is the real problem.

But don't expect an honest discussion about this in the media conglomerate that is owned by tax non domicile billionaires & which got bailed out using PAYE taxpayers money.
 

patslatt

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patslatt's daily bash the public sector / bash trade unions thread.

And he had this one up a few weeks ago - he should go and post his drivel there instead of clogging up the board with new threads.
TROT

So says the fan of Trotsky who was a mass murderer of "class enemies".
 

patslatt

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Apr 11, 2007
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Inflation may be pretty low but the cost of renting or buying a home has gone through the roof, at least in areas where there is public transport.

That being said, luas drivers are already being paid far above what their skillset commands. Their counterparts in Manchester trams operate a more complicated machine and get £19,000 per year for doing so. Rents/House prices might be slightly cheaper in Manchester but it's not that cheap.

Over the next few years CIÉ is heading towards profitability with an improved freight offering on the cards, a huge upturn in passenger numbers, the government is funding construction of better infrastructure, e.g. the Hazelhatch-Portlaoise track upgrade, the resignaling project and the Phoenix Park tunnel project, all of which will bring in more customers. Then you have the planned office/apartment complexes at Connolly, Tara Street and Horgan's Quay, of which 10% of the rent roll will go to CIE for the next 300 years.

The question is what will CIE do with that profitability? improve the frequency of it's services? fund construction of better infrastructure? or pay hikes for the management/staff?
The latter, probably, if the public is suckered by trade union propaganda.
 

Spanner Island

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Feb 22, 2011
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Rents in Dublin are rising in recovery but they were just as high in the boom years.
Do you understand what inflation is and how it's calculated?

Cos it doesn't sound like you do.

And what's in the inflation 'basket' anyway... because things like car insurance and health insurance and all sorts of other costs are rocketing...

Anyway... I'm not going to bite on this thread.

My views on trade unions haven't changed and won't change but there's little point in rehashing them endlessly as has been done on copious similar threads.
 

Felixness

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I'm really sick and tired of these strikes. The threat was initially made when the Luas staff were demanding ridiculous pay rises. Despite a ruling being made that Dublin Bus staffs demands were too high they will screw over the public in their greed. It's like a case of monkey see monkey do with public transport in this country. First the Luas, next it'll be Dublin Bus, then it'll be the trains and before we know it the bloody bus drivers will be on strike nationwide. I hate unions, they should be abolished, there's enough employment law to protect workers in place now.
 

General Urko

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A lot of friends of mine took issue with me not supporting those extremely privileged Luas workers in a monopoly acting the bollex, well I'd say some of them might be changing their minds now!
 

Spanner Island

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A lot of friends of mine took issue with me not supporting those extremely privileged Luas workers in a monopoly acting the bollex, well I'd say some of them might be changing their minds now!
You need new friends. I know nobody who supported the LUAS drivers... :)
 

Roll_On

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A lot of friends of mine took issue with me not supporting those extremely privileged Luas workers in a monopoly acting the bollex, well I'd say some of them might be changing their minds now!
My feeling was that the general public was very much against the luas driver's actions, especially when the terms and conditions of the average Manchester and Barcelona tram drivers were thrown out there. Even the militantly unionised French tram drivers aren't on such rosey terms.
 

patslatt

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Apr 11, 2007
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Where pay increases go was set by the aggressive militancy of the CE group of unions back in the 70s and 80s and the automatic pay parity that ensued from any negotiation. What is more likely is that the subvention will be reduced and in the case of bus services, the very big stick of private operator competition is lurking. In short, unions no longer have the same clout to bully the public or politicians. As for stability well that really doesn't matter so much. Ross is no different than Pascal or Leo in his attitude and even with a FF minister, there is unlikely to ever be a return to the Bertie free cash for the PS days.
RAIL STRIKE

A rail strike could bring Dublin to a halt and if train drivers are ordered back to work, there is a potential threat of an electrical workers strike. An ugly confrontation could be looming for a government with the backbone to stand up to transport monopoly strikes.
 

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