• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

Restore traditional nursing, especially the non-university-trained Nurses


Bobcolebrooke

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
610
I have spoken with many people working in the Health Care sector, who are concerned that the move to university training has changed the opportunities for those born with a vocational calling who wish to provide the crucial core nursing care. The move driven by unions, to establish nursing more as a profession than a vocational calling has meant some thing has been lost in the process.

We should restore hospital-based vocational training, to ensure that a high proportion of our nurses have a vocational orientation. Whilst highly educated and higher skilled nurses are now an integral and vital part of the healthcare team, the all-important core nursing skills need to be restored.

There are certain human elements in nursing that simply cannot be imparted to a nurse through University Training.

This is becoming particularly important in the area of mental health as well as in other areas of care.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,045
Good post. Nursing is about changing bed linen, giving injections and cleaning patients. It seems modern nurses seem to be above all that and these jobs are for someone else. They seem to think they are mini doctors.
 

mickterry

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2009
Messages
1,310
I have spoken with many people working in the Health Care sector, who are concerned that the move to university training has changed the opportunities for those born with a vocational calling who wish to provide the crucial core nursing care. The move driven by unions, to establish nursing more as a profession than a vocational calling has meant some thing has been lost in the process.

We should restore hospital-based vocational training, to ensure that a high proportion of our nurses have a vocational orientation. Whilst highly educated and higher skilled nurses are now an integral and vital part of the healthcare team, the all-important core nursing skills need to be restored.

There are certain human elements in nursing that simply cannot be imparted to a nurse through University Training.

This is becoming particularly important in the area of mental health as well as in other areas of care.
There may be some validity in your post, but it will not happen. It would be easier to turn back the tide.
 

RobertW

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
There are certain human elements in nursing that simply cannot be imparted to a nurse through University Training. This is becoming particularly important in the area of mental health as well as in other areas of care.
I've never read such rubbish in all my life.

The world has moved on from the 1950s.

What do you want?. . . Nurses doing a one week FAS course in mental health care?
 

Bobcolebrooke

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
610
I've never read such rubbish in all my life.

The world has moved on from the 1950s.

What do you want?. . . Nurses doing a one week FAS course in mental health care?
We have many fine vocationally trained nurses in our Health Service. We need to ensure that we continue to attract a lot of people with a vocational calling to nursing.
 

RobertW

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
We have many fine vocationally trained nurses in our Health Service. We need to ensure that we continue to attract a lot of people with a vocational calling to nursing.
What's that got to do with your opening post?

You're actually claiming that nurses, in some way, don't provide care. Have you any idea what you're talking about?

Go down to any major hospital. . .walk along the wards and observe their workload.
 

livingstone

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
24,347
I have spoken with many people working in the Health Care sector, who are concerned that the move to university training has changed the opportunities for those born with a vocational calling who wish to provide the crucial core nursing care. The move driven by unions, to establish nursing more as a profession than a vocational calling has meant some thing has been lost in the process.

We should restore hospital-based vocational training, to ensure that a high proportion of our nurses have a vocational orientation. Whilst highly educated and higher skilled nurses are now an integral and vital part of the healthcare team, the all-important core nursing skills need to be restored.

There are certain human elements in nursing that simply cannot be imparted to a nurse through University Training.

This is becoming particularly important in the area of mental health as well as in other areas of care.

That would make sense if nurses were trained in university alone. They're not - they're trained in a combination of university and hospital placements, so have the opportunity to develop both the hard and soft skills needed.

But the idea of returning to an era when nurses were basically hpspital cleaners and carers would not be desirable. Patients benefit when those they interact with most, i.e. the nurses, have basic medical training that allows them to (a) perform more of the routine matters that used to be the sole reserve of doctors, and (b) provide genuine and informed information about medical conditions and processes etc.

And if you imagine that nurses don't change beds or engage in an awful, awful lot of hard graft that you seem to think that university graduates don't do, then you need to actually see a nurse at work.
 

RobertW

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
But the idea of returning to an era when nurses were basically hpspital cleaners and carers would not be desirable. Patients benefit when those they interact with most, i.e. the nurses, have basic medical training that allows them to (a) perform more of the routine matters that used to be the sole reserve of doctors, and (b) provide genuine and informed information about medical conditions and processes etc.

And if you imagine that nurses don't change beds or engage in an awful, awful lot of hard graft that you seem to think that university graduates don't do, then you need to actually see a nurse at work.
Precisely. The opening poster does not understand what he's talking about.
 
D

Dylan2010

Irish nurses are awsome, I only wish there were more of them , the recent trend in employing lots of agency staff from third world countries has reduced the standard of care on the wards in my experience.
 

RobertW

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
You simply don't understand the difference between vocational versus professional nursing.
"We should restore hospital-based vocational training, to ensure that a high proportion of our nurses have a vocational orientation. Whilst highly educated and higher skilled nurses are now an integral and vital part of the healthcare team, the all-important core nursing skills need to be restored."
You posted that above.

I don't think you realise what you're talking about.
 

RobertW

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
It's just as well that we have you, our modern King Solomon, to show us eejits the error of our ways! Are you a school teacher?
P.ie's very own village idiot has turned up in the form of greengoose. Starts off with a troll and nothing to say on the opening post or subject matter.
 

Bobcolebrooke

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2013
Messages
610
You posted that above.

I don't think you realise what you're talking about.
The vocational calling to nursing is very important. The move to university training and degrees limit the entry oportunities for many who have a calling to nursing. We are losing out on excluding a lot of people who have that a vocational caring calling.

We have more and more people in nursing who are too concerned by salary levels.
 

RobertW

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
The vocational calling to nursing is very important. The move to university training and degrees limit the entry oportunities for many who have a calling to nursing. We are losing out on excluding a lot of people who have that a vocational caring calling.
Anyone who is unsuited to nursing does not enter it or would not last in it.

Professionally trained university educated nurses is called applying standards to a very demanding role which once did not exist. This requires nurses to have a wide array of skills to fit the modern demands required by the public in hospitals.
 

SeanieFitz

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2010
Messages
12,225
I've never read such rubbish in all my life.

The world has moved on from the 1950s.

What do you want?. . . Nurses doing a one week FAS course in mental health care?
what he wants is a way of preventing nurses from taking up job opportunities abroad, simple as that!

If they haven't recognised qualifications they won't be able to get work abroad and have to remain here and accept Dr James O'Reilly's offer of ************************e pay or "work behind the counter of a take away"
 

Suttree

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2011
Messages
1,702
Can I recommend anyone who's been naive enough to climb down underneath the bridge to debate this with Bobcolebrooke come to their senses and come back up from there?
 

RobertW

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
We have more and more people in nursing who are too concerned by salary levels.
Ah. . . So this is your real reason for posting? You think that by devaluing the role and profession that they should be paid less as a result.

Nurses are underpaid in Ireland.

Perhaps your role or job should be demeaned in some way as an excuse to pay you less and to attract those who have vocational aspirations in your profession?
 

RobertW

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,483
what he wants is a way of preventing nurses from taking up job opportunities abroad, simple as that!

If they haven't recognised qualifications they won't be able to get work abroad and have to remain here and accept Dr James O'Reilly's offer of ************************e pay or "work behind the counter of a take away"
All dressed up as a more "vocational training".
 
Top