Return of Howth Trams?

gleeful

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"New report estimates it would cost €6.7m to reopen line which closed in 1959"

The tram line from the Dart to the top of Howth Head was abandoned in 1959, but might return for 'only' €6.7m



It would be a tourist gimmick, rather than a real transport route. Perhaps next they will look to bring back the Atmospheric Railway of Dalkey...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalkey_Atmospheric_Railway

I think there might be a missed opportunity though - we could instead build a full luas line in Howth, and run it through Portmarnock Clongriffin and to the Airport - connecting the Dart, intercity rail and the country's largest transport hub.

 


silverharp

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A hard link from the Dart to the airport would be a good move, tried it a once with the bus connection but meh too messy
 

gleeful

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A hard link from the Dart to the airport would be a good move, tried it a once with the bus connection but meh too messy
Especially given that the space between Portmarnock and the Airport is fast filling up with new housing. In a few years there will be a new Swords in that gap, with over 100,000 people.
 

silverharp

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Especially given that the space between Portmarnock and the Airport is fast filling up with new housing. In a few years there will be a new Swords in that gap, with over 100,000 people.
Swords!!!!! Malahide West man
 

Roll_On

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A new luas line on the route proposed would be a terrible waste of money. The area is rural and the only trip generator are the two end points Howth and the Airport. Serious spending like that will be reserved for Metro North.

An old timey tram would be a very nice addition for Howth, I hope they get funding.
 

gleeful

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A new luas line on the route proposed would be a terrible waste of money. The area is rural and the only trip generator are the two end points Howth and the Airport. Serious spending like that will be reserved for Metro North.

An old timey tram would be a very nice addition for Howth, I hope they get funding.
The airport has 30 million passengers per year. The dart connection supplies 16 million passengers. Howth, Portmarnock and Clongriffin have a combined population of around 50,000. Then add the commutter trains from Dundalk and Belfast who would be allowed to connect at Clongriffin station for the airport - and the new housing going in between - Its a good case.
 

Roll_On

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The airport has 30 million passengers per year. The dart connection supplies 16 million passengers. Howth, Portmarnock and Clongriffin have a combined population of around 50,000. Then add the commutter trains from Dundalk and Belfast who would be allowed to connect at Clongriffin station for the airport - and the new housing going in between - Its a good case.
Then the argument is for a heavy rail i.e DART connection. Light rail in a rural setting is nonsense. The luas has a maximum speed of 75km/hr it is designed for a frequent stopping service. There is currently no plans to zone the area north of Clongriffin for a new town. A DART connection to the airport will be required along with quad tracking from Connolly to Clongriffen if for no other reason than to accommodate the large market Dublin airport has in Belfast and the North East as their airports are terminally incapable of providing good route selection and connectivity. This won't be funded ahead of Metro North however so it'll probably be the 40s by the time this comes around.
 

gleeful

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Then the argument is for a heavy rail i.e DART connection. Light rail in a rural setting is nonsense. The luas has a maximum speed of 75km/hr it is designed for a frequent stopping service. There is currently no plans to zone the area north of Clongriffin for a new town. A DART connection to the airport will be required along with quad tracking from Connolly to Clongriffen if for no other reason than to accommodate the large market Dublin airport has in Belfast and the North East as their airports are terminally incapable of providing good route selection and connectivity. This won't be funded ahead of Metro North however so it'll probably be the 40s by the time this comes around.
The area is not rural anymore and is already heavily zoned for housing (has been for years - and a lot of which is already under construction).

As for the speed - 75km/h and frequent stopping for the Luas. The dart has an official top speed of 100km/h but never reaches it. The average speed of the Dart from Malahide to Bray is 30km/h. Even on a long stretch - say Malahide to Portmarnock the Dart never goes above 50km/h

The distance from Clongriffin to Dublin Airport is only about 8-9km direct. And intermediate stops would be needed in future.
 

Spanner Island

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The airport has 30 million passengers per year. The dart connection supplies 16 million passengers. Howth, Portmarnock and Clongriffin have a combined population of around 50,000. Then add the commutter trains from Dundalk and Belfast who would be allowed to connect at Clongriffin station for the airport - and the new housing going in between - Its a good case.
It's not a great case for those who would want to get from the airport to the city in a short space of time... which would be the vast majority of airport users.

They would basically have to travel east to Portmarnock and change trains there to get into the city centre.

Dublin Airport is only 8 miles or so from the city centre.

It really shouldn't be a monumental or massively expensive project to connect the two with a direct line... whether it's via a LUAS Green line extension or Metro North...

Tram for Howth... great.
 

gleeful

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It's not a great case for those who would want to get from the airport to the city in a short space of time... which would be the vast majority of airport users.

They would basically have to travel east to Portmarnock and change trains there to get into the city centre.

Dublin Airport is only 8 miles or so from the city centre.

It really shouldn't be a monumental or massively expensive project to connect the two with a direct line... whether it's via a LUAS Green line extension or Metro North...

Tram for Howth... great.
I think both should be done. But a connection from the Dart to the Airport can be done now and quickly and cheaply. At the moment, there's a corridor of land available to build the line. In 10 years, that will be built up.
 

Roll_On

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The area is not rural anymore and is already heavily zoned for housing (has been for years - and a lot of which is already under construction).

As for the speed - 75km/h and frequent stopping for the Luas. The dart has an official top speed of 100km/h but never reaches it. The average speed of the Dart from Malahide to Bray is 30km/h. Even on a long stretch - say Malahide to Portmarnock the Dart never goes above 50km/h

The distance from Clongriffin to Dublin Airport is only about 8-9km direct. And intermediate stops would be needed in future.
The DART stops quite a bit though, this would be a mostly rural line. There is no urban use zoning at present in the area and no plans to bring it in. DART at that location also offers the option of direct DART services to other parts Greater Dublin, a stand alone luas line separate from the rest of the luas network is a non starter.
 
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Roll_On

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It's not a great case for those who would want to get from the airport to the city in a short space of time... which would be the vast majority of airport users.

They would basically have to travel east to Portmarnock and change trains there to get into the city centre.

Dublin Airport is only 8 miles or so from the city centre.

It really shouldn't be a monumental or massively expensive project to connect the two with a direct line... whether it's via a LUAS Green line extension or Metro North...

Tram for Howth... great.
I'd imagine we're talking about the distant future anyway. Metro North will not be delivered before 2027 and by then Dublin will be a major Hub Airport so when considering a DART spur at that stage the variables will have changed completely. A luas line is nonsensical even in the distant future, especially when so much more Citty Centre capacity is required on the existing luas network. We'll need two more cross city lines just to cope going forward.
 

wombat

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An old timey tram would be a very nice addition for Howth, I hope they get funding.
There is a private tour ferry sailing from Dun Laoghaire to the city to Howth which seems to be paying for itself so its possible a tourist tram might pay for itself.
 

gleeful

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I'd imagine we're talking about the distant future anyway. Metro North will not be delivered before 2027 and by then Dublin will be a major Hub Airport so when considering a DART spur at that stage the variables will have changed completely. A luas line is nonsensical even in the distant future, especially when so much more Citty Centre capacity is required on the existing luas network. We'll need two more cross city lines just to cope going forward.
If you believe the metro will be even begun by 2027, you're very trusting.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cullen-pledges-dublin-airport-metro-by-2012-1.773584

"Minister Cullen made his comments at the launch of the public consultation phase for Metro North, the project to build an 18km metro line from Dublin city centre to the airport by 2012."
 

Roll_On

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There is a private tour ferry sailing from Dun Laoghaire to the city to Howth which seems to be paying for itself so its possible a tourist tram might pay for itself.
If not I'd be happy enough for them to get a grant to get started up at least.
 

Roll_On

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If you believe the metro will be even begun by 2027, you're very trusting.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cullen-pledges-dublin-airport-metro-by-2012-1.773584

"Minister Cullen made his comments at the launch of the public consultation phase for Metro North, the project to build an 18km metro line from Dublin city centre to the airport by 2012."
I said it 'will not be delivered before 2027' as a best case scenario. I don't expect to see it until the 30s. The point being aint nobody gonna fund a €200mil DART extension to the airport before that, especially when the trains serving it will have nowhere to go once they get to Clongriffen, as presently we don't have quad tracking. The luas idea is a complete non starter.
 

brughahaha

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Read the article Stupid idea ..theres already a Dart if your trying to get to howth ....and no where to put it.
 

gleeful

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Read the article Stupid idea ..theres already a Dart if your trying to get to howth ....and no where to put it.
The Tram would run from the dart station to the top of the hill. Its about 3km and most of the old line route is now a walking path.
 


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