Returning Irish citizens and welfare

Shpake

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
5,282
http://www.politics.ie/forum/europe/257884-does-ireland-apply-enforce-restrictions-available-eu-laws-directives-no-what-cost.html

Post nr # 4 Des Quirell
I have friends who returned to Ireland to be told they had no entitlement to any benefits at all. Ditto a Scottish friend. Zippy.

A entry in the above thread which I thought quite important and deserved a discussion on its own. Applause to Des Quirrell for pointing it out. It's something we should all be aware of and maybe that we should try to change:

Since the collapse and partial recovery of the Irish economy a lot has happened. Tens of thousands of Irish have emigrated to the four corners of the earth. For those who have found success abroad my hearty congrats. For those who were not so lucky well there is bad news. You may not draw the welfare for the first two? three? years after coming back.

This amounts to a major change in the way things work in Ireland and results in a major demographic change. Since the foundation of the state there used always be a large floating population who would move between (usually) the U.K. and Ireland and back depending on the economy and job opportunity. Later this was expanded to the U.S., Europe, Australia.
The government line is that you must have lived here in order to avail of social services. It could be that as the government must grant the same rights to EU workers that become unemployed here, they take the line that unemployed Irish should claim benefit from the U.S., Australia or wherever they have paid into the social system.
In my view this is a major tragedy as in effect it means that people who were forced to emigrate are now discouraged from returning.
It's all very fine and large for a Pole or a Lituanian to come here and find work. But to expect an Irish person to stay over yonder in Lithuania... or the U.S. and live on their dole is a big loss to Ireland. What chance does he have of getting back into the system.
 


PBP voter

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
9,457
Loads will not get a full pension due to missed PRSI payments.

Loads of tradesmen get caught on this. :)
 

Deadlock

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2011
Messages
6,170
http://www.politics.ie/forum/europe/257884-does-ireland-apply-enforce-restrictions-available-eu-laws-directives-no-what-cost.html




A entry in the above thread which I thought quite important and deserved a discussion on its own. Applause to Des Quirrell for pointing it out. It's something we should all be aware of and maybe that we should try to change:

Since the collapse and partial recovery of the Irish economy a lot has happened. Tens of thousands of Irish have emigrated to the four corners of the earth. For those who have found success abroad my hearty congrats. For those who were not so lucky well there is bad news. You may not draw the welfare for the first two? three? years after coming back.

This amounts to a major change in the way things work in Ireland and results in a major demographic change. Since the foundation of the state there used always be a large floating population who would move between (usually) the U.K. and Ireland and back depending on the economy and job opportunity. Later this was expanded to the U.S., Europe, Australia.
The government line is that you must have lived here in order to avail of social services. It could be that as the government must grant the same rights to EU workers that become unemployed here, they take the line that unemployed Irish should claim benefit from the U.S., Australia or wherever they have paid into the social system.
In my view this is a major tragedy as in effect it means that people who were forced to emigrate are now discouraged from returning.
It's all very fine and large for a Pole or a Lituanian to come here and find work. But to expect an Irish person to stay over yonder in Lithuania... or the U.S. and live on their dole is a big loss to Ireland. What chance does he have of getting back into the system.
it's not just social welfare. Insurance is also a huge issue. As is credit history. It's actually like you've died when you've left - I've been asked in banks am I mad that I came home at all!
 

PBP voter

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
9,457
http://www.politics.ie/forum/europe/257884-does-ireland-apply-enforce-restrictions-available-eu-laws-directives-no-what-cost.html




A entry in the above thread which I thought quite important and deserved a discussion on its own. Applause to Des Quirrell for pointing it out. It's something we should all be aware of and maybe that we should try to change:

Since the collapse and partial recovery of the Irish economy a lot has happened. Tens of thousands of Irish have emigrated to the four corners of the earth. For those who have found success abroad my hearty congrats. For those who were not so lucky well there is bad news. You may not draw the welfare for the first two? three? years after coming back.

This amounts to a major change in the way things work in Ireland and results in a major demographic change. Since the foundation of the state there used always be a large floating population who would move between (usually) the U.K. and Ireland and back depending on the economy and job opportunity. Later this was expanded to the U.S., Europe, Australia.
The government line is that you must have lived here in order to avail of social services. It could be that as the government must grant the same rights to EU workers that become unemployed here, they take the line that unemployed Irish should claim benefit from the U.S., Australia or wherever they have paid into the social system.
In my view this is a major tragedy as in effect it means that people who were forced to emigrate are now discouraged from returning.
It's all very fine and large for a Pole or a Lituanian to come here and find work. But to expect an Irish person to stay over yonder in Lithuania... or the U.S. and live on their dole is a big loss to Ireland. What chance does he have of getting back into the system.
Under the provisions of the Agreement, contributions paid in Australia can be used to satisfy the PRSI conditions for Irish payments.

Irish/Australian Social Security Agreement - SW87

We tend to have agreements with the countries were the Queen is head as Irish people love to go to these places.
 

PBP voter

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
9,457
Countries with whom Ireland has Bilateral Social Security Agreements
Bilateral Social Security Agreements are specific arrangements between participating countries that allow people to move between countries and protect their pension entitlements. Ireland has Bilateral Social Security Agreements with:

Canada
Quebec
Australia
United States of America
New Zealand
Republic of Korea
Japan
UK (covering Channel Islands and the Isle of Man)
Ireland's Bilateral Social Security Agreement with Switzerland has been mainly replaced by EU regulations.

The benefits covered by bilateral social security agreements are:

State Pension (Contributory)
Widows, Widower's or Surviving Civil Partner's (Contributory) Pension
Guardian's Payment (Contributory)
Invalidity Pension
The bilateral social security agreements are of greatest relevance for pensioners who retire to Ireland after working in one of the countries listed above.

If you have come from a country with which Ireland has a Bilateral Social Security Agreement, your pension rights from the other country are protected when you move to Ireland. It is possible to have a pension from Ireland and one or all of the other countries. You may be able to combine your insurance records from Ireland and the other country to qualify for a State Pension (Contributory).

Combining social insurance contributions from abroad

Loads of Irish who fecked off to the middle east won't get a full pension.

:) :) :) :) :)
 

Sister Mercedes

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
20,461
What surprised me most when I returned after over 30 years away was the complete absense of any curiosity from people here as to who or what I'd encountered overseas. I've a lifetime of anecdotes and they just sit there inside my head, rotting.
 

ionsniffer

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
7,162
You can be gone and claim job seeker's benefit if paid up to 2015. No need for habitual residence condition

I see a link about transfring stamps from abroad. I don't think outside the EU you can do it.
 

Mick Mac

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
7,851
It it acceptable to have the return of irish citizens prioritized over the arrival of non citizens. It goes very much to the mindset behind how we treat such people.

I know the neo liberal Capitalists types will say no because why incentive the return of citizens when you can get people here for free. I know the paycheck progressives will say no because we're all the same in this magic world and a man who was never here is no different to a man who lived here 30 years before having to emigrate due to the crash... and the funding isn't yet behind that approach to motivate them to see it the other way.

That's the question. Can we say that irish citizens are the priority over non citizens and do we have the will to tell Capitalists it's got to be that way and to allocate funding into the NGO sectors so that the paycheck progressives get on board.
 

Shpake

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
5,282
The main message is that if you want to come back, make sure you have a job lined up. Failing that, try to arrange that the job you left over in.... wherever Middle East...Australia will take you back if needs be. So try to leave on good terms. Don't fart in the gangerman's face etc.
 

PBP voter

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
9,457
You can be gone and claim job seeker's benefit if paid up to 2015. No need for habitual residence condition

I see a link about transfring stamps from abroad. I don't think outside the EU you can do it.
Yep. Not for the dole.

But for pensions you can use them.

:) :) :)
 

paddycomeback

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 19, 2011
Messages
1,925
Brexit might shed some light on this. At the moment the UK count time spent anywhere within Common Travel Area as time in UK for benefits purposes.
RoI does not reciprocate, only time habitually resident within RoI counts.
Like the a la carte attitude to scanning passports of CTA arrivals by RoI, hopefully the Brits will insist on equal treatment post-Brexit.
 

Mick Mac

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
7,851
What surprised me most when I returned after over 30 years away was the complete absense of any curiosity from people here as to who or what I'd encountered overseas. I've a lifetime of anecdotes and they just sit there inside my head, rotting.
You had visions of being traveling Uncle Matt from the Fraggles?
 

Sister Mercedes

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
20,461
There's always been a friction between those who left and those who stayed.

Coming back and asking to go on social welfare is an opportunity for payback in the eyes of some who stayed.
 

Zapped(CAPITALISMROTS)

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Messages
6,493
Twitter
daxxdrake
What surprised me most when I returned after over 30 years away was the complete absense of any curiosity from people here as to who or what I'd encountered overseas. I've a lifetime of anecdotes and they just sit there inside my head, rotting.
Wow!You really are a Sister who did a thirty year stretch abroad ......:shock: No wonder you get so peeved with the state of administration in this country ..:rolleyes: lol
 

Nemesiscorporation

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
13,878
http://www.politics.ie/forum/europe/257884-does-ireland-apply-enforce-restrictions-available-eu-laws-directives-no-what-cost.html




A entry in the above thread which I thought quite important and deserved a discussion on its own. Applause to Des Quirrell for pointing it out. It's something we should all be aware of and maybe that we should try to change:

Since the collapse and partial recovery of the Irish economy a lot has happened. Tens of thousands of Irish have emigrated to the four corners of the earth. For those who have found success abroad my hearty congrats. For those who were not so lucky well there is bad news. You may not draw the welfare for the first two? three? years after coming back.

This amounts to a major change in the way things work in Ireland and results in a major demographic change. Since the foundation of the state there used always be a large floating population who would move between (usually) the U.K. and Ireland and back depending on the economy and job opportunity. Later this was expanded to the U.S., Europe, Australia.
The government line is that you must have lived here in order to avail of social services. It could be that as the government must grant the same rights to EU workers that become unemployed here, they take the line that unemployed Irish should claim benefit from the U.S., Australia or wherever they have paid into the social system.
In my view this is a major tragedy as in effect it means that people who were forced to emigrate are now discouraged from returning.
It's all very fine and large for a Pole or a Lituanian to come here and find work. But to expect an Irish person to stay over yonder in Lithuania... or the U.S. and live on their dole is a big loss to Ireland. What chance does he have of getting back into the system.
Any Irish who go away and then come back have serious problems getting on the dole in Ireland. If less than two years away you are treated very badly and quite often have to go to appeal to get the dole. If away more than two years, you are turned down flat.

However if not Irish, you get payments very quickly. Since I moved home I have seen this happen quite often to the point it is clear that Irish are not wanted back.
 

Nemesiscorporation

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
13,878
There's always been a friction between those who left and those who stayed.

Coming back and asking to go on social welfare is an opportunity for payback in the eyes of some who stayed.
I have noticed that one. It is blatant in some of the welfare offices.
 

Shpake

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
5,282
Of those who emigrated we can say:
Some hit it big.
Some did quite well for themselves and have integrated well over there
Some landed in the shyte.
It's great to have the successful back to spend their money and keep our economy rolling

But for those who didn't make it and want to come back, I think it's a tragedy that the state is putting hurdles in their way
 

PBP voter

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
9,457
Any Irish who go away and then come back have serious problems getting on the dole in Ireland. If less than two years away you are treated very badly and quite often have to go to appeal to get the dole. If away more than two years, you are turned down flat.

However if not Irish, you get payments very quickly. Since I moved home I have seen this happen quite often to the point it is clear that Irish are not wanted back.
The fact that "Habital residence" isn't even defined is a total joke.

What is habitual residence?
The term "habitually resident" is not defined in Irish law.
The term "habitually resident" is not defined in Irish law. In practice it means that you have a proven close link to Ireland. The term also conveys permanence - that a person has been here for some time and intends to stay here for the foreseeable future. Proving you are habitually resident relies heavily on fact. If you have lived in Ireland all your life, you will probably have no difficulty showing that you satisfy the factors which indicate habitual residence – see list below.

Residence requirements for social assistance in Ireland


:roll:

What sort of a system do we have? :confused:
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top