Review of US Preclearance by the Grand Old Duke of York

Schuhart

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I think this episode deserves a thread. It is a good example of our polity in "action", as it were.
Katherine Zappone has written to Taoiseach for review of US pre-clearance | BreakingNews.ie

The Children’s Minister has written to the Taoiseach calling for a review of US pre-clearance at Irish airports.

Katherine Zappone says Donald Trump’s new travel ban may contradict Irish law.

Ireland to review U.S. customs pre-clearance at Irish airports | Reuters

"I have asked for a complete review of the pre-clearance facilities here in Ireland. I would say that pre-clearance has been of enormous convenience, so these are issues that we are happy to negotiate upon," Prime Minister Enda Kenny told a joint news conference with British Prime Minister Theresa May.

Ireland may end US immigration pre-clearance over refugee ban | IrishCentral.com

Ireland is conducting a complete review of the US preclearance locations at Dublin and Shannon airports in response to President Trump’s executive actions banning refugees and Muslim immigrants from seven countries from coming to the US.

Protest Expected At Shannon Airport Later | clare.fm

Clare's Junior Minister believes a review of pre-clearance facilities at Shannon and Dublin Airports will amount to very little.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/512297/dublin-airport-chief-insists-there-will-be-no-change-to-american-pre-clearance-at-irish-airports-despite-enda-kennys-review/

DAA chief Kevin Toland told reporters he was confident there will no change to the current system, following a meeting he had with Foreign Affairs Minister Charles Flanagan.

Government keen to maintain US immigration preclearance facilities at Irish airports

The Government is committed to maintaining the US immigration preclearance facilities operating at Dublin and Shannon airports, Ministers agreed yesterday.

<...>Attorney General Máire Whelan was unambiguous in her advice to Ministers yesterday, telling them that the Irish Constitution or courts had no authority whatsoever over decisions made by US immigration officials in Dublin and Shannon airports.
Can we appreciate how that legal advice slips gently past? You can enter a space in Dublin and Shannon where the Irish Constitution ceases to apply to you.

Incredible.

Notice equally how Reuters are led astray into thinking that a review announced by our Prime Minister at a meeting with a significant world leader means something and should be reported. But Clare FM and The Irish Sun aren't fooled.
 


enuffisenuff

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our politicians don't know their arse from their elbows..its a simple as that
 
D

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I think this episode deserves a thread. It is a good example of our polity in "action", as it were.Can we appreciate how that legal advice slips gently past? You can enter a space in Dublin and Shannon where the Irish Constitution ceases to apply to you.

Incredible.

Notice equally how Reuters are led astray into thinking that a review announced by our Prime Minister at a meeting with a significant world leader means something and should be reported. But Clare FM and The Irish Sun aren't fooled.
The only authority conferred on the U.S. Immigration officials is in respect of immigration matters. They may admit or refuse you admission to the US., but you are free to walk away at any time.
 

ainm_eile

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So the Irish constitution can't compel US agents here to send a message to the Point of Entry over in America that such and such a person is precleared.
 

Orbit v2

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Good thread title and good also to see the AG clarifying the matter unambiguously. There was a legal "expert" on the radio the other day, who certainly gave the impression that Irish law had some role in influencing the pre-clearance operation, which it doesn't of course.

I'm only surprised that the Zap one didn't demand a "root and branch" review which would give a great urgency to the march up the hill and subsequently back down again.
 

Betson

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I heard someone say she is a dual of the US and Ireland citizen so scrapping the pre clearance would not effect her at all. But to a lot of people it is a very important facility to have if they are frequent or infrequent visitors to the US.

Is she willing t0 renounce her US citizenship so that it effects her as well?
 

Spanner Island

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I think this episode deserves a thread. It is a good example of our polity in "action", as it were.Can we appreciate how that legal advice slips gently past? You can enter a space in Dublin and Shannon where the Irish Constitution ceases to apply to you.

Incredible.

Notice equally how Reuters are led astray into thinking that a review announced by our Prime Minister at a meeting with a significant world leader means something and should be reported. But Clare FM and The Irish Sun aren't fooled.
The usual unthinking farcical over-reaction from people who are clueless about what they're talking about.

I've no problem with US Immigration and Customs operating as they do...

Nor should the usual hysterical eejits be allowed threaten the operation of those facilities here...

The staff live and work in Ireland and are just doing their jobs... as US border agents.

They have no jurisdiction other than to refuse entry to the USA if they see fit to do so... which is what they've been doing for decades...

Trump won't be in Washington forever. Nor will the more militant GOP mob be in control forever...

Best to keep channels open and navigate through all this sensibly without k!ssing Trump's arse or throwing our toys out of our pram to make a point that will be lost in minutes.
 

locke

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It's still operating in Canada and their PM is supposedly standing up to Trump.
 

ne0ica

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Who the United States wants to let in is none of out business.
 

Half Nelson

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Zappone is willing to endanger US pre-clearance in Dublin and Shannon in pursuit of some no-account point that sees her get media headlines.
She would see Irish travellers going to the States to queue for hours, then be arrested and refused entry, instead of being refused close to home.

Bear that in mind the next time you have to queue at an airport.

 

Upper Chamber

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Worrying that Zap was never called out in this in public, she seems free to imply pre clearance might be halted (it won't) without any criticism. She seems to have no awareness of the amount of jobs and economic inflow that pre clearance creates.

Ross seems a bit quiet too, possibly worried he might be forced to talk sense instead of grandstanding.
 

Half Nelson

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Worrying that Zap was never called out in this in public, she seems free to imply pre clearance might be halted (it won't) without any criticism. She seems to have no awareness of the amount of jobs and economic inflow that pre clearance creates.

Ross seems a bit quiet too, possibly worried he might be forced to talk sense instead of grandstanding.
Indeed. It's one-way street where Zapppone is concerned, with RTE and the rest acting as her unquestioning messengers. Something stinks.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Zappone is willing to endanger US pre-clearance in Dublin and Shannon in pursuit of some no-account point that sees her get media headlines.
She would see Irish travellers going to the States to queue for hours, then be arrested and refused entry, instead of being refused close to home.

Bear that in mind the next time you have to queue at an airport.

Either it complies with the Constitution or it doesn't, we'll know when the review is conducted.
 

The Field Marshal

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The requirements of US pre clearence at Irish airports are none of the Irish govts business.

The facility , irrespective of its requirements, ensures people are not refused on US soil and spares them the time and expense involved in such refusals.

Only complete loons would quibble about any US requirements at such a passenger friendly and convenient arrangement.
 

Spanner Island

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Worrying that Zap was never called out in this in public, she seems free to imply pre clearance might be halted (it won't) without any criticism. She seems to have no awareness of the amount of jobs and economic inflow that pre clearance creates.

Ross seems a bit quiet too, possibly worried he might be forced to talk sense instead of grandstanding.
Perhaps Zap is in touch with Clare Daly?

After all, Clare proclaimed the other night on the box that the US INS and Customs preclearance services attract little or no traffic...

She'd no facts or figures of course... she just said it...

I'm sure many of her constituents in north Dublin and her old Aer Lingus colleagues who work at Dublin Airport and the various jobs supported by it wouldn't be best pleased with Clare's arrogance...

Aloof politicians with their snouts in the trough don't have to really think about real consequences of the sh!te they utter...

It must be lovely for them.
 

mr_anderson

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As a frequent traveller to the USA, our pre-clearance is a huge bonus.
I'm 100% in favour of it.
Wouldn't surprise me if Trump sets-up pre-clearance in other airports around the world.

There are far more important matters for Zappone to attend to, such as flying out to Saudi Arabia to speak to their leaders on the benefits of lesbianism and homosexuality in general.

Just thought of something, is there pre-clearance into Saudi Arabia for women travelling alone with no male relative to greet them at the airport ?
 

ne0ica

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The requirements of US pre clearence at Irish airports are none of the Irish govts business.

The facility , irrespective of its requirements, ensures people are not refused on US soil and spares them the time and expense involved in such refusals.

Only complete loons would quibble about any US requirements at such a passenger friendly and convenient arrangement.
Exactly the US does this as a favour to Ireland not the other way around.

They won't appreciate till they lose it.
 

Spanner Island

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As a frequent traveller to the USA, our pre-clearance is a huge bonus.
I'm 100% in favour of it.
Wouldn't surprise me if Trump sets-up pre-clearance in other airports around the world.
There are countries and airports queuing up for it... including Manchester and Edinburgh which if memory serves are due to have such a facility soon enough...
 

ne0ica

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Perhaps Zap is in touch with Clare Daly?

After all, Clare proclaimed the other night on the box that the US INS and Customs preclearance services attract little or no traffic...

She'd no facts or figures of course... she just said it...

I'm sure many of her constituents in north Dublin who work at Dublin Airport and the various jobs supported by it wouldn't be best pleased with Clare's arrogance...
Clare Daly said something to the effect of so be it if we lost it on Pravda the other night with out recourse from the Pravda reporter.
 

Watcher2

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I think this episode deserves a thread. It is a good example of our polity in "action", as it were.Can we appreciate how that legal advice slips gently past? You can enter a space in Dublin and Shannon where the Irish Constitution ceases to apply to you.

Incredible.

Notice equally how Reuters are led astray into thinking that a review announced by our Prime Minister at a meeting with a significant world leader means something and should be reported. But Clare FM and The Irish Sun aren't fooled.
Well, the legal advice is correct. However, the areas that the pre-clearance occupies is deemed "US soil" just like embassies the world over, including ours. So we cant make them change it as we have no jurisdiction. We could chuck them out and tell them they can no longer have the space but that would depend on what legally entitles them to take our soil. Is it a license, a lease, was it sold to them etc etc.
 


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