Revisionist history: female warriors

RodShaft

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Poses a good question: why didn't you attempt an answer?

The Easter Week casualty lists are quite well known, though none is ever likely to be thoroughly comprehensive.

The Glasnevin Trust, working from interment records, comes up with 485 deaths: 126 Crown forces, 82 Volunteers, 17 RIC and constabulary — and 260 civilians.

That 485 seems to be the low end of other counts, which generally increase further civilian casualties. In any case, being a Moore Street costermonger seems far more likely to make one a victim than the lads and lasses holed up in their granite redoubt.

Joe Duffy took on the thirty known children killed in Easter Week (nine of them girls).
I looked at that 493 page document previously, btw.

There is not a single rebel female listed killed, based on firstnames.

Perhaps this was not the female led, female staffed rebellion supported by a few feminist men that the RTE coverage would have you believe...
 


bormotello

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if she wouldn't be Russian, she could become a symbol for modern day transgenders on military service

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadezhda_Durova
Military service
She fought in the major Russian engagements of the 1806-1807 Prussian campaign. During two of those battles, she saved the lives of two fellow Russian soldiers. The first was an enlisted man who fell off his horse on the battlefield and suffered a concussion. She gave him first aid under heavy fire and brought him to safety as the army retreated around them. The second was an officer, unhorsed but uninjured. Three French dragoons were closing on him. She couched her lance and scattered the enemy. Then, against regulations, she let the officer borrow her own horse to hasten his retreat, which left her more vulnerable to attack.

During the campaign, she wrote a letter to her family explaining her disappearance. They used their connections in a desperate attempt to locate her. The rumor of an amazon in the army reached Tsar Alexander I, who took a personal interest. Durova's chain of command reported that her courage was peerless. Summoned to the palace at St. Petersburg, she impressed the Tsar so much that he awarded her the Cross of St. George and promoted her to lieutenant in a hussar unit (Mariupol Hussar Regiment). The story that there was the heroine in the army with the name Alexander Sokolov had become well known by that time. So the Tsar awarded her a new pseudonym, Alexandrov, based on his own name.[3]

Durova's youthful appearance hurt her chances for promotion. In an era when Russian officers were expected to grow a mustache she looked like a boy of sixteen. She transferred away from the hussars to the Lithuanian Uhlan Regiment in order to avoid the colonel's daughter who had fallen in love with her. Durova saw action again during Napoleon's invasion of Russia in 1812. She fought in the Battle of Smolensk. During the Battle of Borodino a cannonball wounded her in the leg, yet she continued serving full duty for several days afterward until her command ordered her away to recuperate. She retired from the army in 1816 with the rank of stabs-rotmistr, the equivalent of captain-lieutenant.[4]
 

Malcolm Redfellow

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I looked at that 493 page document previously, btw.

There is not a single rebel female listed killed, based on firstnames.

Perhaps this was not the female led, female staffed rebellion supported by a few feminist men that the RTE coverage would have you believe...
You looked at the document, but couldn't do anything with it? Except, but of course, apply chauvinist pre-conceptions. That's what caused the misguided thinking about pre-historic Scythians, and so queered [sic] the pitch for over a century.

As for the aftermath of Easter Week, Rodshaft must be bewildered that Maxwell managed to round up seventy-four women:
From the start, the soldiers were uncomfortable with them. Most of those who surrendered, including the emotional Countess Markievicz, were quietly spirited away in motor cars rather than being forced (or permitted) to march into detention with the men. Special prison accommodation was found for them. Maxwell fretted about 'all those silly little girls', and as soon as the capital courts martial were done with, he sent a legal officer to sort them out. William Wylie, a barrister and 2nd Lieutenant in the Trinity College OTC, who was serving as a junior Provost Marshal with the 177th Brigade during Easter Week, had been co-opted by Maxwell's Deputy Advocate-General, Byrne, to conduct the prosecution of the leading rebels. The day Connolly and Ceannt ('the most dignified of any of the accused') were executed, Wylie went to interview the 'girls' in Richmond Barracks. 'I wisely got the C.in-C. to give me a chit; the officer in charge turned out to be a major of the old and peppery kind who did his damnedest best first to keep me out and second to keep the girls in.' Wylie found the process of interviewing them 'really amusing. Some of them began by being truculent and ended by being tearful. Others reversed the process.'

With an effortless display of masculine superiority, he sent the great majority home, 'putting back' a few who were 'older, better educated and real believers in a free Ireland'. Maxwell reported to London on 11 May that he had released sixty-two of them with a caution, and detained eighteen 'prominent and dangerous' women whom he had placed 'in the female portion of Mountjoy prison, where they can receive suitable attention'. He proposed to deport eight of these, including Kathleen Lynn, 'B. Lorerench Mullen (Madeleine Ffrench Mullen), Helena Molony and Winifred Carney (whose deadliest weapon had been her typewriter). But this turned out to be harder than he thought. After three weeks of negotiations with the Home Office, he decided to release another five (including Ffrench Mullen), and deport only seven. But it was made clear to him that the Prime Minister 'did not desire these deportations to be carried out'. He explained again at the end of May that 'in view of their sex I considered it would be desirable that they should be granted their liberty , but at the same time I could not allow them to be at large in this country'. On 5 June he was still waiting for arrangements to be made to receive the rest in England — Countess Plunkett was to be deported under DRR 14B to Oxford, Kathleen Lynn to Bath, and five others (Winifred Carney, Marie Perolz, Helena Molony, Breda Foley and Ellen Ryan) to Aylesbury.

None of these, of course, was quite so 'prominent and dangerous' as the colourful Constance Markievicz, the only woman to be court-martialled. Like everything else about her, her trial was a sensation. Wylie, the prosecuting officer, noticed the court president, Brigadier-General Blackader 'getting out his revolver and putting it on the table beside him' as she was called in.

[Source: Charles Townshend, pages 284-286)
Connie, as British gossip (and Wylie, through Elsie Mahaffy, daughter of TCD's Provost) was keen to make known, broke down, wept and pleaded. None of which appears in the formal record.

I revert to my original point: that we cannot easily apply Anglo-Victorian prejudices to sociology and gender-rôles. That applies to educated women in revolutionary Ireland, to war-cultures such as WW2 Soviet Russia, to "reading" prehistory as with the Scythians. It certainly wasn't a fault found in Kipling, or John Masters (that's a real shocker) or even the vibrant, if fictional, Harry Flashman.
 
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parentheses

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Was it ever established which side killed most of the civilians in Easter week 1916?
 

Banjo Baker

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I saw that thing about women and socialists winning the 1916 Rising? :roll::confused::p:p

Seriously.

It was a catastrophic military failure.
 

McTell

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No

silverharp

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or the latest Star Wars , basically the matriarchy against the patriarchy , of course having a bunch of women in charge meant they had their asses kicked
 

eoghanacht

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Setanta and Ferdia were trained by women living in Scotia, mthylogical of course but it does point to the fact it wasn't unheard of never mind what P.ie's misogynists like to believe.

Then there was the case of Boudicca and thats just off the top of my head.

Ceasar made reference to Gaulish women joining the fight or at least joining their men in the last ditch defence of their tribe.

I'm sure there were others.
 

eoghanacht

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or the latest Star Wars , basically the matriarchy against the patriarchy , of course having a bunch of women in charge meant they had their asses kicked
So cleary it was pro patriarchy then if the women lost or did that fact escape you?
 

eoghanacht

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Was it ever established which side killed most of the civilians in Easter week 1916?
Have you learned nothing from the west Brit collective self flagellation commemoration that passed itself off as an celebration of the Easter rising.

Any deaths occurred wasn't down to the Brits trying to turn down town Dublin into something resembling the western front but those nasty Paddy's that started it.

And the greatest victims were the Sherwood foresters.
 

silverharp

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So cleary it was pro patriarchy then if the women lost or did that fact escape you?
they were portrayed as space nazis, its such a feminist chic flick by now Im sure the they get to win in the next movie
 
D

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Setanta and Ferdia were trained by women living in Scotia, mthylogical of course but it does point to the fact it wasn't unheard of never mind what P.ie's misogynists like to believe.

Then there was the case of Boudicca and thats just off the top of my head.

Ceasar made reference to Gaulish women joining the fight or at least joining their men in the last ditch defence of their tribe.

I'm sure there were others.
No one said it was unheard of.
 


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