Revolt over Criminal Justice Bill

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davidcochrane
JUSTICE Minister Michael McDowell was last night faced with an open revolt by 140 barristers over his controversial Criminal Justice Bill.

A letter signed by a phalanx of senior lawyers, including more than a dozen senior counsel, was delivered by hand to Mr McDowell yesterday afternoon.

It protests against the Bill's provision for seven day detention in certain cases, abridgment of the right to silence, and automatic mandatory sentences for a range of offences. - Irish Independent
 


cain1798

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David Cochrane said:
JUSTICE Minister Michael McDowell was last night faced with an open revolt by 140 barristers over his controversial Criminal Justice Bill.
Hopefully they'll all vote for Sinn Féin as the only party opposing it.
 

Maximus

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David Cochrane said:
JUSTICE Minister Michael McDowell was last night faced with an open revolt by 140 barristers over his controversial Criminal Justice Bill.

A letter signed by a phalanx of senior lawyers, including more than a dozen senior counsel, was delivered by hand to Mr McDowell yesterday afternoon.

It protests against the Bill's provision for seven day detention in certain cases, abridgment of the right to silence, and automatic mandatory sentences for a range of offences. - Irish Independent
Didn’t realise the blue shirts had 140 hacks knocking around the Law Library…
 

rover

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cain1798 said:
Hopefully they'll all vote for Sinn Féin as the only party opposing it.
:? thats not true. fine gael have called for it to be withdrawn. gay mitchell went so far as to call for a moratorium on any new criminal justice laws until the law reform commission has a chance to examine the area
 

hiker

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There was a time when barristers and judges would have been considered pillars of society and their opinion would have counted for something.

No more, it seems.

As with priests, doctors, Garda, teachers and bank managers, these former pillars of society are greatly diminished and their opinions are now generally viewed by many with scepticism.
 

rover

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hiker said:
There was a time when barristers and judges would have been considered pillars of society and their opinion would have counted for something
are you saying that the progressive democrats dont view judges as bening pillars of society???
 

cain1798

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rover said:
cain1798 said:
Hopefully they'll all vote for Sinn Féin as the only party opposing it.
:? thats not true. fine gael have called for it to be withdrawn. gay mitchell went so far as to call for a moratorium on any new criminal justice laws until the law reform commission has a chance to examine the area
My understanding was FG was absolutely opposed to the way the Bill was being put through the House and thought it should be withdrawn for further debate but that they wouldn't vote against it.

If I'm wrong, I'll edit my post.
 

gaelach

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hiker said:
There was a time when barristers and judges would have been considered pillars of society and their opinion would have counted for something.

No more, it seems.

As with priests, doctors, Garda, teachers and bank managers, these former pillars of society are greatly diminished and their opinions are now generally viewed by many with scepticism.
U`d still consider Doctors,Judges,Lawyers and teachers(to a lesser extent) pillars of society :?
 

hiker

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gaelach said:
hiker said:
There was a time when barristers and judges would have been considered pillars of society and their opinion would have counted for something.

No more, it seems.

As with priests, doctors, Garda, teachers and bank managers, these former pillars of society are greatly diminished and their opinions are now generally viewed by many with scepticism.
U`d still consider Doctors,Judges,Lawyers and teachers(to a lesser extent) pillars of society :?
Yep. I used too. Over the last ten to twenty years they have ceased to be the pillars they once were.
Corruption, abuse, arrogance have laid these professions low in recent years.

Ordinary people are better educated, better informed and less afraid of these professions.
Economic wealth and security have given ordinary people much more confidence when dealing with these professional.

Basically, we dont take crap no more.
Thats not a bad thing in my opinion.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Their views should be treated with the contempt they deserve. Too many woolly-minded liberals in the law library and on the bench.
 

ailish

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David Cochrane said:
JUSTICE Minister Michael McDowell was last night faced with an open revolt by 140 barristers over his controversial Criminal Justice Bill.

A letter signed by a phalanx of senior lawyers, including more than a dozen senior counsel, was delivered by hand to Mr McDowell yesterday afternoon.

It protests against the Bill's provision for seven day detention in certain cases, abridgment of the right to silence, and automatic mandatory sentences for a range of offences. - Irish Independent
Michael McDowell should get it introduced before the Easter break. It will only be stalled by the likes of the Greens and Labour and the Socialists if he leaves it any later. Certainly, if he leaves it till after the easter break, it may take even longer for it to be introduced.
 

patslatt

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It protests against the Bill's provision for seven day detention in certain cases, abridgment of the right to silence, and automatic mandatory sentences for a range of offences. - Irish Independent
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Abridging the right to silence can allow police to ask leading questions to manipulate suspects, who generally are functionally illiterate, so it can be an unfair contest. Sometimes,intimidating interrogators can brainwash psychologically vulnerable suspects into giving false confessions, as often happens with aggressive American police detectives.

Which classes of suspects would be subject to seven days detention? Seven days may be ok in extreme circumstances, where the suspect has a record of violent crime or is a member of a criminal gang, and the nature of the crime threatens the social order, for example,murder, major bank robberies and attempts to intimidate witnesses. But there is a huge risk of mission creep. Maybe the local shoplifter will eventually be subjected to seven days detention! Don't laugh, in California life sentences are handed out for three shoplifting crimes under the "Three strikes and your'e out" law approved in a referendum.
 

rhonda15

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It protests against the Bill's provision for seven day detention in certain cases, abridgment of the right to silence, and automatic mandatory sentences for a range of offences. - Irish Independent
----------
Abridging the right to silence can allow police to ask leading questions to manipulate suspects, who generally are functionally illiterate, so it can be an unfair contest. Sometimes,intimidating interrogators can brainwash psychologically vulnerable suspects into giving false confessions, as often happens with aggressive American police detectives.

Which classes of suspects would be subject to seven days detention? Seven days may be ok in extreme circumstances, where the suspect has a record of violent crime or is a member of a criminal gang, and the nature of the crime threatens the social order, for example,murder, major bank robberies and attempts to intimidate witnesses. But there is a huge risk of mission creep. Maybe the local shoplifter will eventually be subjected to seven days detention! Don't laugh, in California life sentences are handed out for three shoplifting crimes under the "Three strikes and your'e out" law approved in a referendum.
Thin edge of the wedge here - if they can do it to the most vulnerable they can start to roll it out for everyone.

This is a very dangerous piece of legislation.
 


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