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Rhona Mahoneys conflict of interest

ruman

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Rhona Mahoney ( who is great friends with Mirriam dont you know) has just been appointed to the board of St Vincents Healthcare Group.

Ms Mahoney ( who attempted to hand the new maternity hospital to the nuns) has a substanial investement in the private Merrion Fetal Clinic. Is it really appropriate for her to be appointed to the board?


 


Lumpy Talbot

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No
six year delay from 2018 to 2024.. massive costs overrun and a complete hames of an arrangement around governance at the new hospital.

Just about the only thing left to do now is have it burn down the night before it opens or something equally heinous.

This one has the potential to become a political legacy. And not in a good way.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Going back to Mahony she does seem to raise some questions from time to time as an example of someone who has the ability to fade over and back across the public and private line, and do so quite profitably I'm sure.

On the one hand you'd say good luck to her, she's no gom and a qualified clinician.

But I really don't like the way consultants in the medical field seem to have a disproportionate amount of influence far beyond that of strictly physicians' work.

I'd like to see a full cost benefits analysis to the state on this profession. They are hauling down serious buckets of money and I have a suspicion that few of them would have bought any high ticket scanners/MRI machines so they are getting services probably from the national health service, for which I'd love to see what they are charged.

I'd really like to see this sector looked at thoroughly- and wonder was it some arranged practices in this area that the IMF and ECB were banging on about in some ways in Ireland during the bailout talks.
 

Massey

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Going back to Mahony she does seem to raise some questions from time to time as an example of someone who has the ability to fade over and back across the public and private line, and do so quite profitably I'm sure.

On the one hand you'd say good luck to her, she's no gom and a qualified clinician.

But I really don't like the way consultants in the medical field seem to have a disproportionate amount of influence far beyond that of strictly physicians' work.

I'd like to see a full cost benefits analysis to the state on this profession. They are hauling down serious bicker
Consultants are "charged" about 40k to use public facilities for patients who choose to go privately in public hospitals, the average earned by consultants is 50-60k from this.

The pay for consultants in Ireland, is not attractive to doctors who have spent sometimes over 120 hours working per week working as well as many hours on top studying to learn their skills over 20 years to get where they are.
 

ruman

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Consultants are "charged" about 40k to use public facilities for patients who choose to go privately in public hospitals, the average earned by consultants is 50-60k from this.

The pay for consultants in Ireland, is not attractive to doctors who have spent sometimes over 120 hours working per week working as well as many hours on top studying to learn their skills over 20 years to get where they are.
Massey could you disclose if you or a family member works as a doctor or medical consultant?
 
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ruman

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Going back to Mahony she does seem to raise some questions from time to time as an example of someone who has the ability to fade over and back across the public and private line, and do so quite profitably I'm sure.

On the one hand you'd say good luck to her, she's no gom and a qualified clinician.

But I really don't like the way consultants in the medical field seem to have a disproportionate amount of influence far beyond that of strictly physicians' work.

I'd like to see a full cost benefits analysis to the state on this profession. They are hauling down serious buckets of money and I have a suspicion that few of them would have bought any high ticket scanners/MRI machines so they are getting services probably from the national health service, for which I'd love to see what they are charged.

I'd really like to see this sector looked at thoroughly- and wonder was it some arranged practices in this area that the IMF and ECB were banging on about in some ways in Ireland during the bailout talks.

Agreed. Health policy should be set by the department of health and consultants should confine themselves to medical matters.

The skills required to be a great doctor are entirely different to those required to run a large department or organisation. Obviously there will be medics who possess both but medical skills are not necesarrily a prerequisite to managing a large hospital.

The take down of mandatory disclosure by the medical consultants and the subsequent eviseration of our voluntary open disclosure policy by Gabriel Scally show what can happen when medics are allowed to interfere in health policy.

We need a full comparison with functioning health services in small EU countries. This nonsense of comparing consultsnts salaries to failing health services in large countries like US/UK should end.
 

Massey

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Agreed. Health policy should be set by the department of health and consultants should confine themselves to medical matters.

The skills required to be a great doctor are entirely different to those required to run a large department or organisation. Obviously there will be medics who possess both but medical skills are not necesarrily a prerequisite to managing a large hospital.

The take down of mandatory disclosure by the medical consultants and the subsequent eviseration of our voluntary open disclosure policy by Gabriel Scally show what can happen when medics are allowed to interfere in health policy.

As for Doctors in Management - I would agree, but it is policy ( from the DOH- )to get doctors into management - many doctors waste years doing diplomas and MBAs in healthcare management - how many in the DOH have qualifications in management?

We need a full comparison with functioning health services in small EU countries. This nonsense of comparing consultsnts salaries to failing health services in large countries like US/UK should end.
Health policy is decided by the Department , they have 700 people in the department to do this - no consultants working there,
Most health workers agree with mandatory disclosure - and would lead to better healthcare, most lawyers would like it too as it would be a financial goldmine - that we all will have to pay for!

As to comparing with European systems - rather than large countries like New Zealand - well there are two things
1 in countries like Belgium or Holland pay for consultants is considerably better
2 Irish Doctors are leaving to work in Australia, Canada , UK , New Zealand Canada, US - because Englsh is the first language
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Does anyone know of any data which reveals the number of medical consultants per 1,000 population across Ireland and other European countries?

I've a feeling we have a lot of them. Possibly because diagnosis has increasingly been taken up by consultants, is my sense of it. You rarely used to hear of people going to consultants decades ago and much more diagnoses (rightly or wrongly) seemed to happen at GP stage.

I'm genuinely wondering whether we are very fortunate in the number of consultants operating around the health sector or whether we've created a lucrative secondary market which is creating the demand for said consultants.
 

Massey

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We have one of the lowest per capita number of consultants , but the highest per capita number of medical graduates even excluding non national graduates.
 

ruman

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Health policy is decided by the Department , they have 700 people in the department to do this - no consultants working there,
Most health workers agree with mandatory disclosure - and would lead to better healthcare, most lawyers would like it too as it would be a financial goldmine - that we all will have to pay for!

As to comparing with European systems - rather than large countries like New Zealand - well there are two things
1 in countries like Belgium or Holland pay for consultants is considerably better
2 Irish Doctors are leaving to work in Australia, Canada , UK , New Zealand Canada, US - because Englsh is the first language

Sorry that's simply untrue. Varadkar stated he intended to implement a statutory duty of candour. His chief medical officer was extensively lobbied by medical consultants to prevent this happening. In response Varadkar performed a u turn.

Mandatory disclosure significantly reduced costs in the long term when introduced in parts of the US. ( mostly retired) Irish consultants also earn large fees from preparing expert medical reports under the current system.

Working conditions is the prime cause of Irish doctors leaving and increasing pay wont address that.


There'd definitely a poster on here whose wife is a medical consultant , i cant recall of its you. Any comments from you on this subject should be viewed in that light.
 

ruman

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We have one of the lowest per capita number of consultants , but the highest per capita number of medical graduates even excluding non national graduates.
I think that is the case. Although one must consider what exactly is a consultant accross country. Restrictive practices and lack of training opportunities are also important factors.


Yes the Irish taxpayer funds the education of many consultsnts but is often left dealing with inadequately vetted doctors ( as has been highlighted in the high court a number of times).
 

Massey

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I think that is the case. Although one must consider what exactly is a consultant accross country. Restrictive practices and lack of training opportunities are also important factors.


Yes the Irish taxpayer funds the education of many consultsnts but is often left dealing with inadequately vetted doctors ( as has been highlighted in the high court a number of times).
Because Irish fully trained consultants will not work in the Irish system - there are hundreds of jobs all over the country that cannot be filled by qualified consultants thanks in large part to the uneducated begrudges .
 

Lumpy Talbot

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Why exactly are hundreds if not thousands of consultants needed? Are our GPs and A&E wards as poor at diagnosis as all that?

How did the health service work before we had all these hundreds, possibly low thousands of consultants?
 

ruman

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Because Irish fully trained consultants will not work in the Irish system - there are hundreds of jobs all over the country that cannot be filled by qualified consultants thanks in large part to the uneducated begrudges .
They can work where they want. I dont see what " uneducated begrudges" ( whover they are!) has to do with it.

Anyway whats ultimately important is improving service for patients. I'm not aware of any evidence that increasing consultants pay would achieve that. If it would i would gladly support it.

Anyway we seem to have gone off topic which is the conflict of interest of Ms Mahoney being appointed to the board given her private interests.
 
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ruman

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Why exactly are hundreds if not thousands of consultants needed? Are our GPs and A&E wards as poor at diagnosis as all that?

How did the health service work before we had all these hundreds, possibly low thousands of consultants?

Probably because our " public" consultants spend so much time working in private practice!

Logically we will need more if the ones we have only work part time ( in the public service).
 
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Massey

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Probably because our " public" consultants spend so much time working in private practice!

Logically we will need more if the ones we have only work part time ( in the public service).
500 unfilled consultant jobs , most of these are public only contracts.
Begrudgers want to make it more difficult to work in Ireland .
 

Ardillaun

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Given that Ireland has chosen to mix its public and private health care systems, it’s hardly surprising that doctors are involved in both. Mandatory disclosure is a good idea in a just culture environment but nothing close to that exists yet in the health service. Over the short-term, I can’t see why more disclosure would not lead inevitably to more claims and higher costs.
 

fifilawe

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Rhona Mahoney ( who is great friends with Mirriam dont you know) has just been appointed to the board of St Vincents Healthcare Group.

Ms Mahoney ( who attempted to hand the new maternity hospital to the nuns) has a substanial investement in the private Merrion Fetal Clinic. Is it really appropriate for her to be appointed to the board?







a small country with a " Network of an élite running the country".I am not at all surprised it is "what happens in a banana republic".They always appoint "someone connected " to the top jobs in the civil service, in NGOs , onto Boards , they are many instances of the "same élite family members" being on all sorts of boards.It is nothing to do with talent, brains, ambition it is all about "the Network and the Class from where you come from and belong to".
These boards are just taking the dosh and "dare not question their bosses , they don't want to be Outsiders".It is why the "systems " in Ireland are always running into crisis,Tribunals,Commissions of Inquiries, no one will ever "rock the boat and shout 'This is not right' ".The banks,HSE, Nursing home, Court service,Gardai, Dep of Education are all run by "Neworked élites" and are all full of problems from top to bottom.Long Live The Banana Republic!.
 


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