Rhona Mahoneys conflict of interest

Massey

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No.
I don't think she is a fan of the Nuns , certainly she is very pro choice, but I thought and still do think the nation's maternity hospital should be on a separate site with government control rather than a private organisation ( the same with all the voluntary hospitals)
I believe we could build a state of the art national hospital outside the M50 with Maternity, paediatric Adult and trauma services for half the cost of the NCH.
The new QEH in Glasgow cost 1 billion and has all this.

I actually think the division of national children's hospital and national maternity hospital to separate sites as poorly concieved
 
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ruman

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No.
I don't think she is a fan of the Nuns , certainly she is very pro choice, but I thought and still do think the nation's maternity hospital should be on a separate site with government control rather than a private organisation ( the same with all the voluntary hospitals)
I believe we could build a state of the art national hospital outside the M50 with Maternity, paediatric Adult and trauma services for half the cost of the NCH.
The new QEH in Glasgow cost 1 billion and has all this.

I actually think the division of national children's hospital and national maternity hospital to separate sites as poorly concieved
Her decision making was very poor and it does bring into question her suitability for this role. Her skills as a medic arent being questioned her skills as a manager and more particularly board member are. Lets not forget that this matter only came to light due to Peter Boylan. She should have resigned when it came out.

The site location choice was clearly wrong and it seems the chosen site was deliberatedly undercosted to ensure its selection. Cost overruns were inevitable given the site selection. Had this happened elsewhere there would have been an investigation into the choice of site. That's a discussion for another thread however.
 

Massey

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I think the decision was pre-ordained from the decision to move st Vincent's in the 1960s , but the Catholic control of Holles street was not stopping sterilisation being carried out there.
It is quite clear the Catholic church 's influence is waining, but I agree they should have no hand or part in control of women's bodies .
Either way the national maternity hospital is unlikely to go ahead in the next 20 years, like metro link South, the blow out of the NCH budget has put pay to that.
 
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Clanrickard

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Ardillaun

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I’d be curious to know the methodology involved in compiling those numbers. One thing they don’t seem to have done is assess the effect of different taxation systems and benefit regimes on the bottom line. Although Canada has a largely state run system, many doctors are self-employed contractors within it. This gives them tax breaks but they do pay for their own pension and disability insurance and, in some instances, for locums too. Very few get a massive lump sum here either.
 

Massey

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I’d be curious to know the methodology involved in compiling those numbers. One thing they don’t seem to have done is assess the effect of different taxation systems and benefit regimes on the bottom line. Although Canada has a largely state run system, many doctors are self-employed contractors within it. This gives them tax breaks but they do pay for their own pension and disability insurance and, in some instances, for locums too. Very few get a massive lump sum here either.
Yes it is very hard to compare , some of the consultants that returned found the tax system very difficult to deal with, even the fact that medical registration or supplementary insuranceis non tax deductable against public income .

Radiologists in Canada were taking home the equivalent of the Irish yearly pay every 3 months , plus the fact that doctors are respected unlike the begrudging narrow mindedness that goes on in Ireland .
 

ruman

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Yes it is very hard to compare , some of the consultants that returned found the tax system very difficult to deal with, even the fact that medical registration or supplementary insuranceis non tax deductable against public income .

Radiologists in Canada were taking home the equivalent of the Irish yearly pay every 3 months , plus the fact that doctors are respected unlike the begrudging narrow mindedness that goes on in Ireland .
Would you prefer for the peasants to salute the great consultants or bow when they meet them !?

As to why you are so bothered about the attitude of people ( " the begrudgers") you clearly view with complete contempt i have no idea. Why on earth are you seeking these peoples approval?

Incidentally do you think that the service provided by radiologists will eventually be automated? Seems pretty ripe for disruption or at the very least a significant reduction in the amount of labour required.
 

Ardillaun

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I think radiologists are safe from automation for quite a while. In the first instance, they have taken on a huge range of tricky new procedures that used to be done by surgeons. Secondly, there will be probably an extended transitional period (probably like airplanes) where humans will work alongside computer aids, even in breast screening.

It seems like every week diagnostic imaging is finding something else to investigate:
 

ruman

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I think radiologists are safe from automation for quite a while. In the first instance, they have taken on a huge range of tricky new procedures that used to be done by surgeons. Secondly, there will be probably an extended transitional period (probably like airplanes) where humans will work alongside computer aids, even in breast screening.

It seems like every week diagnostic imaging is finding something else to investigate:
Wont it become effectively a monitoring role ? Significantly increasing the amount of work done by one radiologist but also reducing the number required.

You might end up with a few really highly paid radiologists. I'd imagine that will be the way medicine will go overall. A select few really highly paid professionals but a significantly reduced demand in terms of numbers.

Significant consolidation of hospitals will accelerate this process. Huge rewards for the very best but your bog standard consultant is likely to become redundant.

Med tech is a very interesting area right now. Potential rewards are huge although the risk of state interference could potentially limit the upside for investors.
 
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Massey

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Would you prefer for the peasants to salute the great consultants or bow when they meet them !?

As to why you are so bothered about the attitude of people ( " the begrudgers") you clearly view with complete contempt i have no idea. Why on earth are you seeking these peoples approval?

Incidentally do you think that the service provided by radiologists will eventually be automated? Seems pretty ripe for disruption or at the very least a significant reduction in the amount of labour required.
Cannot see radiologists being automated , perhaps the reading of X-ray s will be contracted to third world countries a la cervical screening - perhaps in the future there may be second reading by computers - may help reduce the error rate.
 

ruman

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Cannot see radiologists being automated , perhaps the reading of X-ray s will be contracted to third world countries a la cervical screening - perhaps in the future there may be second reading by computers - may help reduce the error rate.
Sorry i cant see how any rational person could dispute that we will eventually get to a stage where technology will eventually provide far more accurate results than humans. More importantly its inevitable that human errors will occur more frequently.

As you point out fear mongering by vested interest groups may delay adoption but eventually it will happen. The only issue is how quickly we get to this point.

The pontential rewards will be enormous for a few but as in other industries the middle ground will be hollowed out.
 

Massey

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Sorry i cant see how any rational person could dispute that we will eventually get to a stage where technology will eventually provide far more accurate results than humans. More importantly its inevitable that human errors will occur more frequently.

As you point out fear mongering by vested interest groups may delay adoption but eventually it will happen. The only issue is how quickly we get to this point.

The pontential rewards will be enormous for a few but as in other industries the middle ground will be hollowed out.
Would you feel safe flying on a 737 max ? The computers override the correct pilots decisions.
It may well be that technology will surpass clinicians knowledge and skills, but I think it will be at least 20 years . Technology will become more important , stethoscopes are already on the way out.
 

ruman

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Would you feel safe flying on a 737 max ? The computers override the correct pilots decisions.
It may well be that technology will surpass clinicians knowledge and skills, but I think it will be at least 20 years . Technology will become more important , stethoscopes are already on the way out.
As already stated i still see a supervisory role for the best and brightest however it will lessen the need for consultants. The best should prosper the mediocre are likely to become redundant.

As per your post scare mongering will try and slow this process but its like trying to stop the tide going out. Mistakes happen all the time with consultants we will get to a stage where machines are safer quite quickly i suspect. The interesting aspect for me is the investment opportunities here and whether the state will try and capture some of the potentially large profits from investors.
 

ruman

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Taxpayer building facilities for private business now. Astonishing stuff

"Mr Bruton also told the Dáil that eight private outpatient consulting rooms will be part of the €1.7 billion project under construction. He insisted that the private provision of care “is not a major element of this project” and “going to be at a very low level”.


 

Massey

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Taxpayer building facilities for private business now. Astonishing stuff

"Mr Bruton also told the Dáil that eight private outpatient consulting rooms will be part of the €1.7 billion project under construction. He insisted that the private provision of care “is not a major element of this project” and “going to be at a very low level”.


I actually think this is disgusting. I really think we need to get private medicine out of public hospitals, we had a real chance to do it here.
 

ruman

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I actually think this is disgusting. I really think we need to get private medicine out of public hospitals, we had a real chance to do it here.
Whats even more sickening is space is at a premium in this location. Its unlikely that a maternity hospital will fit , yet they have space to build private business premises ( with taxpayer money). Brutons dismissive comments are astonishing.
 

Watcher2

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We have one of the lowest per capita number of consultants , but the highest per capita number of medical graduates even excluding non national graduates.
If you could explain what you mean by that and how it relates to the substance of this thread, that would be great.
 

Watcher2

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........

As to comparing with European systems - rather than large countries like New Zealand - well there are two things
1 in countries like Belgium or Holland pay for consultants is considerably better
2 Irish Doctors are leaving to work in Australia, Canada , UK , New Zealand Canada, US - because Englsh is the first language
English is the first language here too, so what is the attraction to those other countries you mention?
 


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