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Riddle me this.


Mister men

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May 9, 2010
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2,887
How come there are 455,000 people on the dole and yet only 1,500 see fit to protest this government in the capital yesterday. Why are Irish people so indifferent to the state the country is in. I've thought about this a lot recently and i've come to the conclusion that social welfare payments are to high and this is part of the problem. Is it possible FF know that if they lower welfare payments by the 30-40% they need to be brought down by, that the people will rise up againest them. Thoughts?
 


danger here

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Mar 9, 2010
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2,585
Might be something to do with this





 

edor

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Sep 1, 2009
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640
I'd imagine that like most people they don't want to be associated with loons like the socialists and eirigi. Anyway, why should they attend a protest set up by ICTU that did nothing for them in the first place? Nothing to do with social welfare payments.

Another reason is plain to see in your post. There are 455k on the dole in Ireland, not Dublin.
 

Bebsaboo

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Jun 30, 2010
Messages
145
I think people would be more inclined to protest if they had someone to lead them. The most depressing thing about the recession is that there hasn't been any leadership from any quarter. It seems pointless to work towards turfing the current crowd out when you don't have anyone to replace them with.
 

keepitreal

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Jan 9, 2008
Messages
144
How come there are 455,000 people on the dole and yet only 1,500 see fit to protest this government in the capital yesterday. Why are Irish people so indifferent to the state the country is in. I've thought about this a lot recently and i've come to the conclusion that social welfare payments are to high and this is part of the problem. Is it possible FF know that if they lower welfare payments by the 30-40% they need to be brought down by, that the people will rise up againest them. Thoughts?
1,501 protested yesterday, and that one man in his cement truck made more of a statement than the other 1,500 imo.
I get your point, but it doesn't take hundreds of thousands to get the pitchforks. IMO Some really well planned small protests can have just as much impact.

I agree with you if the SW is cut then things will get nasty.
 

rebus

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Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
22
How come there are 455,000 people on the dole and yet only 1,500 see fit to protest this government in the capital yesterday. Why are Irish people so indifferent to the state the country is in. I've thought about this a lot recently and i've come to the conclusion that social welfare payments are to high and this is part of the problem. Is it possible FF know that if they lower welfare payments by the 30-40% they need to be brought down by, that the people will rise up againest them. Thoughts?
maybe it has something to do with the lack of nationwide advertising for this event?
Why did it have to be in Dublin when unemployment is nationwide,and in my own opinion social welfare payments are not too high, i presume you are being devils advocate when you seem to be hinting that the people on the dole sould have marched on mass to Dublin?
 

rebus

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Sep 27, 2010
Messages
22
I'd imagine that like most people they don't want to be associated with loons like the socialists and eirigi. Anyway, why should they attend a protest set up by ICTU that did nothing for them in the first place? Nothing to do with social welfare payments.

Another reason is plain to see in your post. There are 455k on the dole in Ireland, not Dublin.
i agree about ICTU, I had first hand experiece of a Union going behind the backs of members to cut deals with management,people that I know are on the social with the help of a union, and they want us to march, maybe the spotlight should be put on them sometime with their pay and perks
 

Mister men

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May 9, 2010
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maybe it has something to do with the lack of nationwide advertising for this event?
Why did it have to be in Dublin when unemployment is nationwide,and in my own opinion social welfare payments are not too high, i presume you are being devils advocate when you seem to be hinting that the people on the dole sould have marched on mass to Dublin?
All i know is that if i lived anywhere in Ireland and was on the dole i would make the effort to protest the shower that has put me in the position of having to emigrate.
 

Maximus Cynicus

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Apr 7, 2010
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1,075
Sorry, guys, I just caught the tail end of this one the News yesterday. Were the great union pirates JackBeard and DavidBeard trying to stoke up something? They of the "partnership"?
 

danger here

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Mar 9, 2010
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Someone in Germany,whether they live in somewhere as expensive as Munich or as poor as Brandenburg,gets a total of €359 per month dole.The government publishes affordable recommended nutritional meals in the newspapers every week.This is coming to a dole office near you in the not too distant future.
 

Flynnster

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Feb 5, 2007
Messages
128
People will protest if they feel strongly enough as evidenced by the protests in relation to local hospital & health services closures.

I think the issue yesterday is that the protesters are just protesting the Government & not a specific issue which the people will support. Fair enough the protestors yesterday will say they were protesting with genuine grievences however these issues are very wooly & vague to the majority of ordinary irish folk.

Unless an issue directly affects an Irish person in a real and tangible way they are unlikely to take to the streets in any great numbers.
 

rebus

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Messages
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All i know is that if i lived anywhere in Ireland and was on the dole i would make the effort to protest the shower that has put me in the position of having to emigrate.
fair enough but i am on the dole because of a union, i am also trying to start my own business and feed a family, i was not going to march behind a union driven protest that put me on the dole after 26 years. and there were 20 otehr guys with me that would not march for this reason, all with 20-30 years service to a company now all on the dole...shafted by a union
 

sauntersplash

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Feb 3, 2009
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Standing in a group "protesting" is an utter, complete, proposterous, undignified waste of everybody's time. Politicians smirk when they see it. The day of such mass gatherings having any effect on anything have long passed, if they ever existed in the first place.
 

johntrenchard

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Nov 7, 2009
Messages
991
Standing in a group "protesting" is an utter, complete, proposterous, undignified waste of everybody's time. Politicians smirk when they see it. The day of such mass gatherings having any effect on anything have long passed, if they ever existed in the first place.
exactly.

and concrete truck man proved that. one fella + one truck got acres more attention than any "protest".
 

Flynnster

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Standing in a group "protesting" is an utter, complete, proposterous, undignified waste of everybody's time. Politicians smirk when they see it. The day of such mass gatherings having any effect on anything have long passed, if they ever existed in the first place.
I fundamentally disagree with this. Protesting does have its place. I do believe that politicians take them seriously when the numbers are large enough or local enough to affect them but when protests aren't supported by large numbers they just take on the appearance of fringe groups protesting ala yesterdays attempt.

Protests if handled correctly and large enough can have a massive impact on politicans. A recent example of this was the reversal of the medical card rules for the over 70's
 

sauntersplash

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I fundamentally disagree with this. Protesting does have its place. I do believe that politicians take them seriously when the numbers are large enough or local enough to affect them but when protests aren't supported by large numbers they just take on the appearance of fringe groups protesting ala yesterdays attempt.

Protests if handled correctly and large enough can have a massive impact on politicans. A recent example of this was the reversal of the medical card rules for the over 70's
Ok. How large do the numbers need to be exactly? Do you remember the protest in Dublin against the Iraq war and US military using shannon seven or eight years ago? Hundreds of thousands of people attended for an entire day. Do you know what effect it had? Guess.

Why do people keep trotting out that pensioners medical card thing? It was always planned that that would be reversed. It is called misdirection. It is the bread and butter of politics.
 
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
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Because the dole isnt too bad and people are just hanging on.

The real shock will come when the dole is slashed either by FF,FG/Labour, or the IMF.

When people can live they will have no other option than to smash the system.
 

kalipa

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Apr 19, 2010
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10,161
I don't think standing outside the Dáil with a few people who have their own agendas shouting into microphones will be in any way effective.

What we need is a day/days of general strike but unfortunately that won't happen. People either feel beaten down and demoralised or they think it's beneath them
 

loaf

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Sep 2, 2009
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Ok. How large do the numbers need to be exactly? Do you remember the protest in Dublin against the Iraq war and US military using shannon seven or eight years ago? Hundreds of thousands of people attended for an entire day. Do you know what effect it had? Guess.

Why do people keep trotting out that pensioners medical card thing? It was always planned that that would be reversed. It is called misdirection. It is the bread and butter of politics.
I'd suggest that political protests have a function beyond the question 'will it immediately change anything?'

Building political resistance can be a slow process, and protests play their part in this. They may not change anything in the short term, but they at least show that there IS resistance, that an opposition exists, that (at least some) citzens are not the docile, apolitical, self-interested drones they're so often thought to be.

This is important. Democracy in its parliamentary-capitalist form encourages people to become docile, apolitical, self-interested drones. It seems to be largely succeeding in that. But this means that protest, in itself, is a good thing. A show of resistance is, in itself, a challenge to the political / economic hegemony that succeeds as a result of promoting itself as the only show in town.
 

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