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Right of access to historical sites

Cai

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Someone was telling me the other day that he'd tried to visit the giant Iron Age Hill fort Dinas Dinorwig (North West Wales) recently, but the owner had chased him away.

If you 're not aware of the site, see here - http://youtu.be/PDF68mbe0F0

It's eady to understand the point of view of landowners not wanting loads of people on their land, but it seems a pity that this ancient - & historically important site is only viewable by him & his family.

Does Ireland have a law ensuring public access to sites like this? If not, should it have?
 


former wesleyan

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Someone was telling me the other day that he'd tried to visit the giant Iron Age Hill fort Dinas Dinorwig (North West Wales) recently, but the owner had chased him away.

If you 're not aware of the site, see here - http://youtu.be/PDF68mbe0F0

It's eady to understand the point of view of landowners not wanting loads of people on their land, but it seems a pity that this ancient - & historically important site is only viewable by him & his family.

Does Ireland have a law ensuring public access to sites like this? If not, should it have?
Googled it and most entries say that permission should be asked of the owner as it's on private land. Seems legit. In Ireland only the property owner has rights; the public none at all really, unless a deal has been struck with the owner of the surrounding land.
 

Karloff

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Sites of significance should be served with compulsory purchase orders by the government if the public cannot get access to them by the landowner.

In addition the amount of wild land controlled by the govt should never reduce, that should be more than a policy - it should be a law. So if land is owned by the state never privatise it ever. People need access to their environment it is natural and essential that this be so.
 

Cai

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Googled it and most entries say that permission should be asked of the owner as it's on private land. Seems legit. In Ireland only the property owner has rights; the public none at all really, unless a deal has been struck with the owner of the surrounding land.
Apparently the owner isn't keen to provide access.
 

McTell

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No
Other side is where people intrude so much that monuments are destroyed.

Local bodies have been campaigning for years to have what is left of various bronze age lumps and bumps on the Curragh protected from the army that is, emm, protecting us all.

Newgrange was completely rebuilt in the 1960s and is not bronze age, but is sold as bronze age. The Curragh monuments are bronze age and are used as interesting 3D "terrain" for our 3 tanks to cross. Followed by trial bikes etc.


New group set up to protect the Curragh is meeting today | Kildare Now

O'Loughlin will fight to have the Curragh designated a National Heritage Amenity(NHA) | Kildare Now
 

TiredOfBeingTired

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Cai

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Other side is where people intrude so much that monuments are destroyed.

Local bodies have been campaigning for years to have what is left of various bronze age lumps and bumps on the Curragh protected from the army that is, emm, protecting us all.

Newgrange was completely rebuilt in the 1960s and is not bronze age, but is sold as bronze age. The Curragh monuments are bronze age and are used as interesting 3D "terrain" for our 3 tanks to cross. Followed by trial bikes etc.


New group set up to protect the Curragh is meeting today | Kildare Now

O'Loughlin will fight to have the Curragh designated a National Heritage Amenity(NHA) | Kildare Now
In my experience Hill Forts aren 't going to be over run by tourists. Really famous ones such as Dun Aengus in your country & Tre'r Ceiri in mine seem quite quiet.
 

Socratus O' Pericles

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Someone was telling me the other day that he'd tried to visit the giant Iron Age Hill fort Dinas Dinorwig (North West Wales) recently, but the owner had chased him away.

If you 're not aware of the site, see here - http://youtu.be/PDF68mbe0F0

It's eady to understand the point of view of landowners not wanting loads of people on their land, but it seems a pity that this ancient - & historically important site is only viewable by him & his family.

Does Ireland have a law ensuring public access to sites like this? If not, should it have?
I actually find this an intriguing question.


Is ownership theft?


But with due respect to Goats' point -I grow a small plot 20 x 15 of spuds at the end of the garden and I wouldn't like anyone marching through them to visit the potentially historic site that is my residence.
 

Cai

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I actually find this an intriguing question.


Is ownership theft?


But with due respect to Goats' point -I grow a small plot 20 x 15 of spuds at the end of the garden and I wouldn't like anyone marching through them to visit the potentially historic site that is my residence.
Nobody's asking for that - just a reasonable, unobtrusive means of access.
 

Truth.ie

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If the building or site is owned by the National Trust there is public access.
I not, you need to ask for permission.
 

The Field Marshal

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Sites of significance should be served with compulsory purchase orders by the government if the public cannot get access to them by the landowner.
I disagree.
There are plenty of publicly accessible sites of significance already.

Your proposal merely adds to the taxpayers burdens .

In addition the amount of wild land controlled by the govt should never reduce, that should be more than a policy - it should be a law. So if land is owned by the state never privatise it ever.
Again I disagree.
The state already has too much land.

People need access to their environment it is natural and essential that this be so.
People already have enormous public access to the environment.

Your proposals will cost a fortune and are redundent in that the type of access you scream for is already very generously provided for courtesy of the Irish taxpayer for whose pocket you show no regard at all.
 

freewillie

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I actually find this an intriguing question.


Is ownership theft?


But with due respect to Goats' point -I grow a small plot 20 x 15 of spuds at the end of the garden and I wouldn't like anyone marching through them to visit the potentially historic site that is my residence.
Freddie West didnt like busy bodies knocking around his place either
 

RasherHash

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I think one of the main things is to preserve these monuments and that is made easier when the tourists are restricted for one reason or another.
 

Niall996

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Nobody's asking for that - just a reasonable, unobtrusive means of access.
All sounds well and good in theory until the crusties, pagans, vegans, crystal gazers and drop outs start descending on your land and converting it into a dire makeshift permanent smelly folk festival.
 

runwiththewind

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I suppose the reasons these sites have survived for sp long is because they are on private land.
 

runwiththewind

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I suspect that planning permission wasn't needed. You can renovate old cottages without permission.
That not a cottage. It's a mansion.
 

Orbit v2

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Other side is where people intrude so much that monuments are destroyed.

Local bodies have been campaigning for years to have what is left of various bronze age lumps and bumps on the Curragh protected from the army that is, emm, protecting us all.

Newgrange was completely rebuilt in the 1960s and is not bronze age, but is sold as bronze age.
It must have been the 70's because the very first school tour I went on (in 1972) was to Newgrange before it was "done up".

As regards the OP's question, the law on open access to private property is the same as what applied prior to the creation of the state. AFAIK, there hasn't been a single law passed by the Oireachtas on the question. Whereas in the UK, it has moved on somewhat (which is somewhat ironic). So, you can assume that laws in this country are more oriented towards private property than the common good, as compared with the UK. In this specific question of historic monuments, I suspect it's the same. You would need permission of the owner of the land to visit.

Just to add to that, there is or used to be a tax break available here for owners of property with interesting architectural or historic interest, to encourage them to open them to the public for a certain number of occasions per year. Some of the owners were very enthusiastic about the tax break but less so about allowing access to the public, and they didn't exactly go out of their way to publicise it.
 
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