• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Right to die case to come before the High Court


DaveM

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
16,028
Woman to testify in 'right-to-die' case - The Irish Times - Fri, Nov 30, 2012

Special arrangements have been made for a woman terminally ill with multiple sclerosis to give evidence to the High Court next week why she wants unprecedented orders permitting her be helped lawfully take her own life if and when she chooses.
A mother of two adult children living in Co Wicklow with Mr Curran, Ms Fleming (59), who was diagnosed in 1986 with MS and is in the final stages of the condition, says she is past the point where she could take her own life unaided but wants to establish the right to end her life with assistance.
Suicide is not illegal here but it is an offence under the Criminal Law Suicide Act 1993 to be an accomplice to such an act and a jail sentence of up to 14 years may be imposed for that offence. Ms Fleming is challenging the constitutionality of the 1993 Act alleging it interferes with her rights to autonomy and dignity.
This woman appears to be of sound mind and her desire to end her life is entirely her own. What societal benefit is there in preventing her being facilitated in doing so? I cannot comprehend any justification for her being forced against her will to live for another few months in agonising pain. Would a compassionate society not accede to her wishes and facilitate her?
 


Tin Foil Hat

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
2,900
I wish her well and hope the judgement goes her way.
However, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that it will.
 

MariaMcN

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
9,474
There is no right to die. Moreover, as decided by the European Court of Human Rights, no such right can be derived from the right to life.
 

DaveM

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
16,028
There is no right to die. Moreover, as decided by the European Court of Human Rights, no such right can be derived from the right to life.
Assuming that a doctor who is freely willing can be found do you think she should be assisted in carrying out her wish?
 

4horsemen

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
2,992
There is no right to die. Moreover, as decided by the European Court of Human Rights, no such right can be derived from the right to life.
Do you mean such Right exists or equivalently what criteria do propose as the basis for deciding what is or is not a Right? You maybe unaware we debated this extensively some months ago see
http://www.politics.ie/forum/health-social-affairs/193395-should-we-have-right-death-26.html
Curiously the illegality of assisting someone commit suicide must be one of few laws preventing a legal action.
 

MariaMcN

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
9,474
Assuming that a doctor who is freely willing can be found do you think she should be assisted in carrying out her wish?
Patients should never be subjected to burdensome or futile medical treatment that is designed to prolong their life unnaturally. Moreover, everything should be done to minimise the pain and suffering of patients. Do I believe that patients should be allowed to choose the hour and manner of their death and be helped to end their life? No, that is not something a doctor can or should do.
 

DaveM

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
16,028
Patients should never be subjected to burdensome or futile medical treatment that is designed to prolong their life unnaturally. Moreover, everything should be done to minimise the pain and suffering of patients. Do I believe that patients should be allowed to choose the hour and manner of their death and be helped to end their life? No, that is not something a doctor can or should do.
Why not?
 

MariaMcN

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
9,474
Do you mean such Right exists or equivalently what criteria do propose as the basis for deciding what is or is not a Right? You maybe unaware we debated this extensively some months ago see
http://www.politics.ie/forum/health-social-affairs/193395-should-we-have-right-death-26.html
Curiously the illegality of assisting someone commit suicide must be one of few laws preventing a legal action.
Because causing or facilitating the death of another person is unlawful.

The European Court of Human Rights have ruled that to try to derive a right to die from the right to life is a perverse distortion of the right to life.
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,218
The Hippocratic Oath.

The risk of abuse is an other issue.
Is it not the case that the primary source of your belief is that you think that only god can make such a decision?
 

MariaMcN

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2012
Messages
9,474
Is it not the case that the primary source of your belief is that you think that only god can make such a decision?
No. I believe that we have to have ethical standards in medicine. The prohibition on ending the lives of patients is one such ethical principle.
 

gerhard dengler

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
47,523
The patient in this case has my every sympathy.

But my sympathy doesn't extend to supporting her wish to be allowed to die.

If she wishes to take her own life then that is her decision.
She shouldn't be seeking to pass that responsibility on to someone else.
 

The Herren

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
4,863
Its ironic is it not? Just a few weeks ago we had the tragedy of a woman pleading for her life to be saved and now we have the tragic instance of a woman pleading for her life to be taken. In each case the law of the land cannot facilitate the pleas. There is a serious serious gulf between our laws and the needs of the people they are there to protect.
 

ruserious

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,621
No. I believe that we have to have ethical standards in medicine. The prohibition on ending the lives of patients is one such ethical principle.
If someone is on their death bed and in severe pain, what will you gain from supporting a move which will not allow them end their life?
 

Kev408

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 26, 2006
Messages
5,123
Because causing or facilitating the death of another person is unlawful.

The European Court of Human Rights have ruled that to try to derive a right to die from the right to life is a perverse distortion of the right to life.
She's not trying to derive a right to die from her right to life. She's arguing that the 1993 Act interferes with her rights to autonomy and dignity - a different issue to the one you keep citing.

Anyway, in my opinion anyone who is of sound mind and to whom all other options have been made categorically available and crystal clear, who still wants to end their own life either aided or unaided, should be allowed to do so. It would be utterly selfish of society to force such a person to 'live'.
 

Future Irish Leader

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
1,026
The government shouldn't decide if a person can die or not. It is the individual who has suffered the agonising pain of a terminal disease that should have all the options available to them and the government should not interfere with that if it interferes with their values.
 

statsman

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
56,218
No. I believe that we have to have ethical standards in medicine. The prohibition on ending the lives of patients is one such ethical principle.
So deciding the hour and means of death is not, in your view, a divine prerogative?

In which case, would you object to non-medical people assisting their loved ones in cases like the one in the OP?
 

damus

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
23,671
No. I believe that we have to have ethical standards in medicine. The prohibition on ending the lives of patients is one such ethical principle.
Out of interest, on the ethical spectrum where would you stand on passive euthanasia like withholding hydration or food etc?
 

ShoutingIsLeadership

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
50,434
The patient in this case has my every sympathy.

But my sympathy doesn't extend to supporting her wish to be allowed to die.

If she wishes to take her own life then that is her decision.
She shouldn't be seeking to pass that responsibility on to someone else.
By seeking assistance, she is the one deciding to end her life. She is just physically unable to complete the action.
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top