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Roger Casement Executed Today in 1916

JohnD66

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Casement is probably the 'odd one out' among the 16 men executed in 1916.

Today in Irish History, August 3 1916, Roger Casement is Executed | The Irish Story

Just for starters, he was a Protestant from County Antrim, from a strongly unionist background. Then he became a loyal servant of the British Empire, believing in in its civilising mission. Apparently it was the Boer War that turned him around on that.

Then because unlike any of the others, he was well known outside of Ireland for his humanitarian work in exposing the abuse of workers at rubber plantations in the Belgian Congo (well technically it was a private holding of King Leopold at the time) and in Peru.

One version of events has it that he joined the dots between what he had seen in Africa and Peru and the situation in Ireland and came up with a cogent theory that was against Imperialism generally. Now I must say, as someone who is both against imperialism and for the independence of Ireland, I don't quite buy this. I struggle to see how the situation in pre-Home Rule Ireland and the exploitation of native rubber workers in Peru are the same struggle, but that's just my opinion.

I tend to think of Casement as an unrealistic idealist. Apparently he complained in Germany that the Germans were only involved in Ireland for self-interest. How on earth did he think great power politics worked?? He tried to recruit Irish POWs but was spectacularly unsuccessful. Only 56 out tens of thousands of potential recruits. Whereas the Russians successfully recruited a Czech Legion from Habsburg Pows and the Germans a Polish legion from Russian Army prisoners etc.

And if you look at Casement's recruits, they weren't of the best moral standard - eg Maurice Meade of Limerick. The man gave a probably wholly invented account to the Bureau of Military History about fighting for the Germans in Egypt. Back in Ireland he joined the IRA and committed a number of very questionable killings -allegedly killing surrendered RIC men wholesale at the Dromkeen ambush in 1921. Then being involved in more alleged abuse of prisoners in the Free State Army in the Civil War. But I digress.

I'd compare Casement in many ways to Micheal ('The') O'Rahilly. Both upper class adventurers who tried to call of the Rising and who both died as a result of it. Some will see that as jaundiced view, but I think it's significant that when the time came for building a genuine revolutionary nationalist movement after 1916, such people became less and less prominent.

Finally regarding the 'Black Diaries', which alleg that he had sex with hundreds of men and boys, some in their early teens, across Africa, South American and back in Ireland and Britain. There's a very good piece on Dublin Review of Books about this that lays out hte evidence The Black Diaries: the Case for Forgery

I really don't know if they were genuine. I do know that the British government leaked them so that the campaign for clemency for Casement would not gather momentum. I lean towards the view that they probably were written by him but were fantasies rathr than records of things he actually did.
 


GDPR

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The Ghost of Roger Casement by W.B. Yeats.

O WHAT has made that sudden noise?
What on the threshold stands?
It never crossed the sea because
John Bull and the sea are friends;
But this is not the old sea
Nor this the old seashore.
What gave that roar of mockery,
That roar in the sea's roar?
The ghost of Roger Casement
Is beating on the door.

John Bull has stood for Parliament,
A dog must have his day,
The country thinks no end of him,
For he knows how to say,
At a beanfeast or a banquet,
That all must hang their trust
Upon the British Empire,
Upon the Church of Christ.
The ghost of Roger Casement
Is beating on the door.

John Bull has gone to India
And all must pay him heed,
For histories are there to prove
That none of another breed
Has had a like inheritance,
Or sucked such milk as he,
And there's no luck about a house
If it lack honesty.
The ghost of Roger Casement
Is beating on the door.

I poked about a village church
And found his family tomb
And copied out what I could read
In that religious gloom;
Found many a famous man there;
But fame and virtue rot.
Draw round, beloved and bitter men,
Draw round and raise a shout;
The ghost of Roger Casement
Is beating on the door.
 

GDPR

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A great man and a great patriot, ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam dílis.
 

12 bens

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The Ghost of Roger Casement by W.B. Yeats.

O WHAT has made that sudden noise?
What on the threshold stands?
It never crossed the sea because
John Bull and the sea are friends;
But this is not the old sea
Nor this the old seashore.
What gave that roar of mockery,
That roar in the sea's roar?
The ghost of Roger Casement
Is beating on the door.

John Bull has stood for Parliament,
A dog must have his day,
The country thinks no end of him,
For he knows how to say,
At a beanfeast or a banquet,
That all must hang their trust
Upon the British Empire,
Upon the Church of Christ.
The ghost of Roger Casement
Is beating on the door.

John Bull has gone to India
And all must pay him heed,
For histories are there to prove
That none of another breed
Has had a like inheritance,
Or sucked such milk as he,
And there's no luck about a house
If it lack honesty.
The ghost of Roger Casement
Is beating on the door.

I poked about a village church
And found his family tomb
And copied out what I could read
In that religious gloom;
Found many a famous man there;
But fame and virtue rot.
Draw round, beloved and bitter men,
Draw round and raise a shout;
The ghost of Roger Casement
Is beating on the door.
...also remembered by James Joyce in Ulysses

-Well, says J.J., if thery're any worse than those Belgians in the Congo Free State they must be bad. Did you read that report by a man what's this his name is?

-Casement, says the citizen. He's an Irishman.

-Yes, that's the man, says J.J. Raping the women and girls and flogging the natives on the belly to squeeze all the red rubber they can out of them.
 

McTell

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No
Casement is probably the 'odd one out' .....

Odd with a capital Q.

Just like Pearse and Collins, the only mystery now is whether he was a shirt-lifter or a pillow-biter.

I was impressed at MI5 inventing all those diaries in wartime inside 2 months. Then I figured they were real, nobody would go to all that trouble.
 

GDPR

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...also remembered by James Joyce in Ulysses

-Well, says J.J., if thery're any worse than those Belgians in the Congo Free State they must be bad. Did you read that report by a man what's this his name is?

-Casement, says the citizen. He's an Irishman.

-Yes, that's the man, says J.J. Raping the women and girls and flogging the natives on the belly to squeeze all the red rubber they can out of them.
Joyce was degenerate scum...Keep the mention of him as far away from Yeats as possible. The reason that the current ruling elite particularly promote James Joyce when the island has far superior writers is distinctly sinster in my opinion.
 

12 bens

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Joyce was degenerate scum...Keep the mention of him as far away from Yeats as possible. The reason that the current ruling elite particularly promote James Joyce when the island has far superior writers is distinctly sinster in my opinion.
Disregard the ruling elite for a moment...have you read Ulysses?
 

JohnD66

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Odd with a capital Q.

Just like Pearse and Collins, the only mystery now is whether he was a shirt-lifter or a pillow-biter.

I was impressed at MI5 inventing all those diaries in wartime inside 2 months. Then I figured they were real, nobody would go to all that trouble.
Not that it matters, but there is absolutely no evidence of any kind that Michael Collins was gay.
 

GDPR

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Disregard the ruling elite for a moment...have you read Ulysses?
Unfortunately yes. The Dead in Dubliners is a brilliant story. James Joyce had talent but he lacked completely the soul to have genius. He is nothing compared W.B. Yeats, Francis Stuart and Liam O'Flatherty...Nothing at all.
 

GDPR

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Odd with a capital Q.

Just like Pearse and Collins, the only mystery now is whether he was a shirt-lifter or a pillow-biter.

I was impressed at MI5 inventing all those diaries in wartime inside 2 months. Then I figured they were real, nobody would go to all that trouble.
Were you born a cretin, or did you have to work at it?
 

SEAMAI

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Odd with a capital Q.

Just like Pearse and Collins, the only mystery now is whether he was a shirt-lifter or a pillow-biter.

I was impressed at MI5 inventing all those diaries in wartime inside 2 months. Then I figured they were real, nobody would go to all that trouble.
Do you lie awake at night thinking about?
 

12 bens

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Unfortunately yes. The Dead in Dubliners is a brilliant story. James Joyce had talent but he lacked completely the soul to have genius. He is nothing compared W.B. Yeats, Francis Stuart and Liam O'Flatherty...Nothing at all.
Why 'unfortunately'?

What did you not like about Ulysses?

(We are getting off topic here but Casement is cited by Joyce in Ulysses)
 

GDPR

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Not that it matters, but there is absolutely no evidence of any kind that Michael Collins was gay.
There is more evidence that he was homosexual than that Roger Casement was, Micheal Collins was the the typical "hard mon" with an ego complex and they often tend to be rejectors of the feminine in the bedroom as much as else where.
 

JohnD66

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And what difference if he was? McTell is just a moron.
None at all. But the fact is that he wasn't.

You know, I'd kind hoped we could discuss Casement on this thread, but no... a particularly swift degeneration this time by certain posters into innuendo and abuse.
 

GDPR

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Why 'unfortunately'?

What did you not like about Ulysses?

(We are getting off topic here but Casement is cited by Joyce in Ulysses)
Because it gave an essentially sordid and cynical view of the world. It showed a world without any transcendence.
 

JohnD66

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None at all. But the fact is that he wasn't.

You know, I'd kind hoped we could discuss Casement on this thread, but no... a particularly swift degeneration this time by certain posters into innuendo and abuse.
Oh god. Look, I wouldn't care if Collins was gay. However there is no evidence at all for this apart from Eoghan Harris making a few innuendos in the 1990s because he like to wrestle with men. Casement however, if one believes the diaries were genuine, filled five notebooks full of same sex yearning.
 

GDPR

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None at all. But the fact is that he wasn't.

You know, I'd kind hoped we could discuss Casement on this thread, but no... a particularly swift degeneration this time by certain posters into innuendo and abuse.
You know this is politics.ie, not intellect.ie This is a hang out for every West Brit subhuman who has a complex about being born in Ireland rather than in the Nirvana of south-east England.
 

eoghanacht

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In fairness to The O' Rahilly when he brought himself along to join the rising his reticence on the wisdom of staging the rising his reply was "well I have wound the clock I may as well hear it chime".

Whatever about his personal politics he was an avowed racist, you have to give credit to a man who despite his misgivings he stood shoulder to shoulder with his comrades.

P.S Casement, wasn't the only one from a unionist background that took part.
 

Polly Ticks

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Because it gave an essentially sordid and cynical view of the world. It showed a world without any transcendence.
A limiting perspective...

Perhaps it possessed its own transcendence, like great works of art tend to do.
 

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