Roger Casement

DOD

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Casement's sexuality was obviously a major issue at the time, but I would like to think we should be mature enough now to not care whether or not he longed for some well built brazilian dude to take him on the kitchen table. His sexuality was a matter for himself. He was a human rights activist and a man who defied his background to speak out and work against injustices. A truly admirable man.
 


Indyjoe

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but I would like to think we should be mature enough now to not care whether or not he longed for some well built brazilian dude to take him on the kitchen table.
I also think we should be mature enough to declare that paying young men/ teenagers for sex is immoral.
But you are right, the commemoration is concerned with his acheivements, not with the forgeries.
 

DOD

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Indyjoe said:
but I would like to think we should be mature enough now to not care whether or not he longed for some well built brazilian dude to take him on the kitchen table.
I also think we should be mature enough to declare that paying young men/ teenagers for sex is immoral.
But you are right, the commemoration is concerned with his acheivements, not with the forgeries.
Well I don't know anything about the 'paying' part, but certainly if the man just wanted a bit of the good stuff with another fella, there is nothing wrong with that.
 

Gombeen

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DOD said:
Indyjoe said:
but I would like to think we should be mature enough now to not care whether or not he longed for some well built brazilian dude to take him on the kitchen table.
I also think we should be mature enough to declare that paying young men/ teenagers for sex is immoral.
But you are right, the commemoration is concerned with his acheivements, not with the forgeries.
Well I don't know anything about the 'paying' part, but certainly if the man just wanted a bit of the good stuff with another fella, there is nothing wrong with that.
I think they problem is that they were pretty much all underage(open to correction on this) which would make it paedophilia.
 

32

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rabscuttle said:
As far as Im aware the commemoration is organised by members of Republican Sinn Fein.
This event is being organised by the local Casement commemoration committee of which Sean O'Bradaigh is a member. Members of Republican Sinn Fein will be in attendence.
Will only true and real republicans be allowed to attend?

If that's the case then most of 'Kingstown' and the rest of the borough will have to clear out for the day.
 

green

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Indyjoe said:
March to Casement birthplace in Sandycove
Red1916 said:
North Antrim where Casement was born.
Oh, for goodness' sake. Is this another means of demarcating between True Republicans and partitionist sell-outs?
 

DOD

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Indyjoe said:
Roger Casement was born in Glasthule and lived there til he was about nine. Then his family moved to Antrim.
Are you sure about that?
 

Alliance

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DOD said:
Indyjoe said:
Roger Casement was born in Glasthule and lived there til he was about nine. Then his family moved to Antrim.
Are you sure about that?
yes
 

Alliance

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DOD said:
Indyjoe said:
Roger Casement was born in Glasthule and lived there til he was about nine. Then his family moved to Antrim.
Are you sure about that?
yes. He moved to Antrim and stayed with grandparents as far as I'm aware. His father was dead, right?
 

Cael

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Sad to see some morons here making anti-gay comments. If he was gay that makes him an even more interesting character in some respects. As far as I am aware the so called Black Diaries dont say anything about having sex with children - besides, at the time, the age of concent in most of the world was much lower than now. In fact if these diaries are true it shows that he had even more courage than most, as he would have known they would be found and used against him, but he, nevertheless, had the courage to really know himself and let others know him too. In fact the really disgusting thing about the Black Diaries was the way a criminal gang like the British Empire used a man's sexuality to murder him.
 

Indyjoe

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Sad to see some morons here making anti-gay comments. If he was gay that makes him an even more interesting character in some respects. As far as I am aware the so called Black Diaries dont say anything about having sex with children - besides, at the time, the age of concent in most of the world was much lower than now. In fact if these diaries are true it shows that he had even more courage than most, as he would have known they would be found and used against him, but he, nevertheless, had the courage to really know himself and let others know him too. In fact the really disgusting thing about the Black Diaries was the way a criminal gang like the British Empire used a man's sexuality to murder him.
As Catheleen Knowles McGuirke outlined at the commemoration- of course there is nothing wrong had Casement been a homosexual, though the forgeries are the only evidence that he was. The forgeries showed a man who had indulged in the lowest depravity, taking advantage of others, and this was done by the British to destroy his name.

Casement's two last requests to his people before his death were to be buried in Antrim (this has not yet happened) and to have his name cleared.
Self-righteousness for the cause of liberalism do not do Casement's memory a service.
 

Cael

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Did Casement deny that he had written the diaries?
 

Indyjoe

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He denied the black diaries were written by him.
If it come sto believing a republican hero or believing the British state I know who I trust.
 

CJH

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Indyjoe said:
He denied the black diaries were written by him.
If it come sto believing a republican hero or believing the British state I know who I trust.
He was an agent of the British state himself for many years.

He inspired the most beautiful rebel song of them all, "Banna Strand". Pity you don't hear it very much anymore
 

Cael

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Indyjoe said:
He denied the black diaries were written by him.
If it come sto believing a republican hero or believing the British state I know who I trust.
Well, of course, nobody would believe anything a murdering gang of robbers like the British Empire would say.
 
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his sexual preference is really not an issue. he was a man who fought injustice whereever he found it.

on the issue of Banna Strand i heard it sung only at the weekend.

the man paid the ultimate sacrifice for his love of ireland, gay or not.

this weeks an phoblacht sinn fein weekly has an article on him.

instead of getting hung up on what he liked to get up to behind closed doors, lets rember a great republican, and a friend to struggling people the word over.
 

Cael

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Sovereignty and Unity said:
his sexual preference is really not an issue. he was a man who fought injustice whereever he found it.

on the issue of Banna Strand i heard it sung only at the weekend.

the man paid the ultimate sacrifice for his love of ireland, gay or not.

this weeks an phoblacht sinn fein weekly has an article on him.

instead of getting hung up on what he liked to get up to behind closed doors, lets rember a great republican, and a friend to struggling people the word over.
Sad that Vincent Brown, writing in this weeks Village, makes unjustified statements about Casement's sexuality using the so called Black Diaries as source - he doesnt even bother to give references from these unproven documents to back up his statements. Its a general problem with Village - the magazine is certainly head and shoulders above the pack when it comes to the Irish print media - but it sometimes falls into dreadful carelessness, which stands out in even clearer relief against the generally good work. (I would leave Gerry Adams' boring and self serving column out of all the above.)
 

Lao-Tse

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As Catheleen Knowles McGuirke outlined at the commemoration- of course there is nothing wrong had Casement been a homosexual, though the forgeries are the only evidence that he was. The forgeries showed a man who had indulged in the lowest depravity, taking advantage of others, and this was done by the British to destroy his name.

Casement's two last requests to his people before his death were to be buried in Antrim (this has not yet happened) and to have his name cleared.
Self-righteousness for the cause of liberalism do not do Casement's memory a service.
Are you sure? Jeffrey Dudgeon states that Casement's associate John Devoy told people in 1916 that he knew
Casement was a homosexual:

Devoy, who was never as fond of Casement as the more extreme Irish-American leader Joseph McGarrity, later accused Casement of nearly wrecking the Easter Rising and made it plain to two of the Gifford sisters in New York in late 1916 that he knew Casement was homosexual. Referring to Birkenhead’s calling Casement an “Oscar Wilde,” he said “Oh well, its all true, every word of it. I know it is.”
> He Could Tell You Things

I'd tend towards the view that the Black Diaries are probably authentic-WJ McCormack tested them a few years
ago and found them authentic,and they also seem too be to long and complex to be forgeries. However, I can understand people being annoyed
with a focus on Casement's sexuality to the neglect of the other aspects of his life.
 
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Catalpa

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As this thread is a bit old I will just repost my comments from a few years ago:

The Black Diaries if genuine just show the writer as a fantastist.

Any man in his position would have been taking huge risks in engaging in so much illict sexual activity.

He would also have had to have known all the regular haunts of Vice in numerous different cities, visited those areas, sought out contacts and paid for those services on a very regular basis. Quite an achievment!

That he could do this on so many occasions without compromising himself seems to me a bit far fetched.

If he was guilty it was guilt by imagination not commission IMCO.

It's only fair to point out that Casement denied all this right up to the end.
 


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