Romanian beggar loses High Court case against her conviction

borntorum

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Mr Justice John Hedigan in the High Court has described a beggar's constitutional challenge to her conviction on a public order charge as 'proposterous' and 'without merit'.

Carmen Ilie (20), a native of Romania with an address at Cabra Park, Dublin, was convicted of wilfully obstructing a female passerby in Dublin city centre late at night.

Mr Justice John Hedigan said the judicial review proceedings on behalf of Ms Ilie were “unstateable” given the evidence.
The case arose from a decision by District Court Judge Mary Collins in December 2009 to convict Ms Ilie of an offence under Section 9 of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 after she admitted blocking a person’s free passage on Aston Quay, Dublin, on August 22nd, 2009.

A garda gave evidence he saw Ms Ilie pull on the woman’s handbag strap.

Judge Collins sentenced Ms Ilie to be bound to the peace on condition she stay outside the Temple Bar area. After Ms Ilie refused to enter into that bond, the judge imposed a €200 fine.
Ms Ilie attempted to argue that begging was constitutionally protected free expression:

If the facts of the case could amount to an offence under Section 9, it was also submitted Ms Ilie was entitled to defend the charge on grounds of her constitutional right of freedom of expression in the course of begging. It was argued a person has a constitutional right to beg and the purpose of Section 9 was to prevent people blocking roads with barriers or protests.
The judge decided that he didn't have to hear from lawyers for the DPP; he believed that the plaintiff's case was so poor that he dismissed it without the other side having to give evidence.

'Preposterous' begging case dismissed - The Irish Times - Thu, Oct 21, 2010
 


McDave

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The solicitor who took this case [Con Pendred] should have his arse kicked around the Four Courts and then into the Liffey for permitting such a monumental waste of valuable superior court time to occur.

Was it a Legal Aid case? If so the LA Board has to be fully apprised of this absurd abuse of the Irish taxpayer's hard earned dosh. And a Romanian beggar to boot. Does she even have a right under EU law to be here if she doesn't have means.

It really is disgraceful that a state can be abused in such a fashion and on so many counts. It's a sick joke.
 

borntorum

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You paid, of course.
Well actually:

He awarded costs to the DPP against Ms Ilie and lifted the stay on her conviction and fine which was in place pending the outcome of the High Court case.
Whether the DPP will be able to recover his costs from her is of course a different matter
 
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How can a destitute beggar from Rumania afford a house in Cabra Park?:rolleyes:
HSE rental allowance.

Worth a few bob to "the most vunerable members of society".

Oh by the way the taxpayer gets the bill.

I think its called "social justice".

Ah sure Jaysus, wouldnt ya need a sense of humour.
 

borntorum

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The solicitor who took this case [Con Pendred] should have his arse kicked around the Four Courts and then into the Liffey for permitting such a monumental waste of valuable superior court time to occur.

Was it a Legal Aid case? If so the LA Board has to be fully apprised of this absurd abuse of the Irish taxpayer's hard earned dosh. And a Romanian beggar to boot. Does she even have a right under EU law to be here if she doesn't have means.
My guess would be that the solicitor took it on a 'no win, no fee' basis. I doubt he was banking on his client being fixed with costs in the event of her losing. Although she probably has no assets of her own.
 

Mercurial

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I don't really have a problem with people begging, provided that they don't obstruct other people as the woman in this case seems to have done.
 

asset test

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My view is that those who could do with a bit of extra income would NEVER beg. They will trim their costs and keep their dignity, and many need more income now in these awful times.

No one in this country should need to beg. Those who have no homes will be housed or given hostel accommodation, not perfect, but it is a roof over heads. they can get a sub from the Relieving Officer from Dept Social Protection. We are a caring society in general, and I mean that before anyone guffaws.

So, who are left? Those who need money for non essentials. Drugs, booze, to enrich themselves, whatever. Anyone who needs to supplement the State payouts is a fraud. Sorry that's how I feel.

Now I realise that some vulnerable people do fall through the cracks. That does not mean they need to beg. They need to access the charitable and State services that will provide. And they do.

Begging is a business for most of them, and tax free too.
 

Trampas

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I don't really have a problem with people begging, provided that they don't obstruct other people as the woman in this case seems to have done.

Do you not indeed. And what about visitors to Ireland having to run the gauntlet of a veritable phalanx of mendicants, domestic and otherwise ?
 

b.a. baracus

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There is a Roma beggar outside Connolly Station most mornings who is barefoot and wrapped in a blanket. There are many places in Dublin where a person can get shoes and clothes for nothing if one is so badly in need that one cannot afford them. This cretin is the worst form of ham actor I have ever seen.

Mr Pendred should bow his head in shame for taking on this ridiculous case.
 

mickdotcom

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I walk through Temple Bar frequently and for some reason

I am a magnet to the Romanian female beggars- they surround me

and try and intimidate me- however I am a thick fecker so I am grand,

I dread to think how a little old lady or very vunerable person gets through this gauntlet,

though a mate of mine told me that whenthey come near him he says

"show me your tits and I will give you a euro"- they rarely hassle him a second time.
 

Mercurial

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Do you not indeed. And what about visitors to Ireland having to run the gauntlet of a veritable phalanx of mendicants, domestic and otherwise ?
As I said, I don't think they should be allowed to obstruct people.

So you have no problem with beggars arriving here and begging on our streets while being housed at the expense of Irish taxpayers?

Like seriously come on!:rolleyes:
As opposed to someone who is born here and begs on our streets while being housed at the expense of the Irish taxpayers? Not really, no.
 

Catalpa

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I walk through Temple Bar frequently and for some reason

I am a magnet to the Romanian female beggars- they surround me

and try and intimidate me- however I am a thick fecker so I am grand,

I dread to think how a little old lady or very vunerable person gets through this gauntlet,

though a mate of mine told me that whenthey come near him he says

"show me your tits and I will give you a euro"- they rarely hassle him a second time.
I was on the the 39 out of town a few years ago & that was exactly what happened.

This Roma young one sat down beside me with an infant

- & cool as you please yanks out one and starts breast feeding the little critter.:shock:

- and not a bother on her!

I didn't give her 50c let alone a bloody Euro!
 

florin

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HSE rental allowance.

Worth a few bob to "the most vunerable members of society".

Oh by the way the taxpayer gets the bill.

I think its called "social justice".

Ah sure Jaysus, wouldnt ya need a sense of humour.
Don't forget that it also benefits the landlords because rental allowance helps keep rent high. God forbid that property owners be exposed to a free market..


I find using the phrase "Du-te dracului!" quite effective myself. :lol:
They also seem to dislike "Zigeunerin raus!"
 


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