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Roscommon Childcare case


Newsy

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Aug 23, 2009
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910
The HSE has issued an "unreserved and unequivocal" apology to six children involved in the Roscommon childcare case.

The HSE said it accepted in full the findings and recommendations of the inquiry team, which identified clear service failures by the then Western Health Board (later merged into the HSE) up to the time the children were taken into care in 2004.

There are six children in the family involved, who were subject to serious neglect and harm by their parents over a long period. Both parents have been before the courts and have been convicted.

The report into the case found that that important child protection concerns were not addressed adequately over a number of years.

This failure meant that the harm and neglect of the children and young adults in this family continued.

The inquiry team said the voices of the six children were not heard in this case over the years. By not hearing directly the concerns of the children, the services could not respond fully to their needs, the report said.Four of the six children in this case have now been in the care of the HSE for six years. The report states that they are well-settled in secure and caring foster homes and progressing well. The two other children, who are now young adults, are living with relatives.
HSE apologises in Roscommon childcare case

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Publications/services/Children/RoscommonChildCareCase.pdf

Let us not forget these children in the midst of all of our financial woes.

Hopefully, so much will be learned AND IMPLEMENTED for children who will need the support of the HSE, in the future. Let it never happen again, that the voices of children aren't heard.
 

spidermom

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Sep 13, 2008
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Apology from the HSE.... my backside...
national audit...my backside......


NOT GOOD ENOUGH...at all.
First complaint was 1989...kids finally rescued in 2004.
We can only be grateful that the kids "survived".

http://www.politics.ie/current-affairs/70468-child-abuse-today-6.html
Old thread at this stage.Did not acquire the same number of postings that the church abuse or the ryan reports garnered. I am not suggesting that the level or extent of the abuse was the same, but I am SURE that the same level of apathy survives around the protection of our most vulnerable as did then.
 

Newsy

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Aug 23, 2009
Messages
910
Apology from the HSE.... my backside...
national audit...my backside......


NOT GOOD ENOUGH...at all.
First complaint was 1989...kids finally rescued in 2004.
We can only be grateful that the kids "survived".

http://www.politics.ie/current-affairs/70468-child-abuse-today-6.html
Old thread at this stage.Did not acquire the same number of postings that the church abuse or the ryan reports garnered. I am not suggesting that the level or extent of the abuse was the same, but I am SURE that the same level of apathy survives around the protection of our most vulnerable as did then.
I imagine 'heads' won't roll???

I completely agree with you about apathy.......children are the most vulnerable in our society and yet the need for their protection will fall on many, many deliberately deaf ears.
 

spidermom

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If I hear of the promise of another national audit...I WILL GO INSANE!!!!


Remember the the most recent....national audit of unread X-Rays.....yeah!!
The word on the ground is if the truth were published......well...you can guess!!!
 

Newsy

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If I hear of the promise of another national audit...I WILL GO INSANE!!!!


Remember the the most recent....national audit of unread X-Rays.....yeah!!
The word on the ground is if the truth were published......well...you can guess!!!
Jesus......it would be so easy, at this stage, to be driven to despair......
 
Last edited:

berberie

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Apr 26, 2009
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162
I totally agree but unfortunately judging by the cases which have gone before I hold out little hope. Until we as a society start caring for the children in our own communities nothing will change. No matter how many new social workers are employed, there will still always be children slipping through the nets.

Just look at the Kelly Fitzgerald case in Mayo. When the family moved back to Ireland from England, British social services contacted social services here due to the ill treatment Kelly had received whilst the Fitzgeralds were living in England. Kelly lost her life at 15 through gross neglect and brutal treatment at the hands of her parents (cause of death was blood poisoning, she was starved, made to live outside with little clothing etc) each of which served 18 months and were handed back their other children upon release. The only child not returned to these 'parents' was Geraldine who suffered abhorantly too. As an adult Geraldine attempted to bring a case against her parents but as far as I know the DPP have not allowed her to have her day in court, why? Was Geraldine's suffering not important enough?

The Sligo case, also running from 70's to 90's. The children told various adults in positions of power what was happening to them and still no one would listen or save them. Nothing happened until they reached adulthood and took both the NWHB, family doctor and their father to court. McColgan served 9 years of a 12 year sentence and 3 years after release he moved to England where he was arrested for possession of child pornography!

Yet as early as 1993 a report after the Kilkenny case of 1991 was highlighted "made a number of recommendations to ensure cases like that in Kilkenny could never go unnoticed again. These included the implementation of 1991 childcare legislation, new child protection guidelines for dealing with suspected abuse cases, improved family support services, and cooperation between various agencies, including gardaí and health boards." (The Tribune) In this case a girl had been physically and sexually abused by her father for 13 years even though the family had come to the attention of the social services on a number of occasions.

Yet if the 1993 report could not prevent the Fitzgerald and McColgan cases how can we be sure that the Roscommon case will prevent any current or future child abuse and suffering in the home. Most importantly we should remember that these are not just 'cases' we are talking of but rather too many individual children who suffered appalling abuse in it's many insiduous forms, at the hands of a parent or parents. An apology after the fact can not give a person back the childhood they should have had or Kelly back her life.
 

spidermom

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I totally agree but unfortunately judging by the cases which have gone before I hold out little hope. Until we as a society start caring for the children in our own communities nothing will change. No matter how many new social workers are employed, there will still always be children slipping through the nets.

Just look at the Kelly Fitzgerald case in Mayo. When the family moved back to Ireland from England, British social services contacted social services here due to the ill treatment Kelly had received whilst the Fitzgeralds were living in England. Kelly lost her life at 15 through gross neglect and brutal treatment at the hands of her parents (cause of death was blood poisoning, she was starved, made to live outside with little clothing etc) each of which served 18 months and were handed back their other children upon release. The only child not returned to these 'parents' was Geraldine who suffered abhorantly too. As an adult Geraldine attempted to bring a case against her parents but as far as I know the DPP have not allowed her to have her day in court, why? Was Geraldine's suffering not important enough?

The Sligo case, also running from 70's to 90's. The children told various adults in positions of power what was happening to them and still no one would listen or save them. Nothing happened until they reached adulthood and took both the NWHB, family doctor and their father to court. McColgan served 9 years of a 12 year sentence and 3 years after release he moved to England where he was arrested for possession of child pornography!

Yet as early as 1993 a report after the Kilkenny case of 1991 was highlighted "made a number of recommendations to ensure cases like that in Kilkenny could never go unnoticed again. These included the implementation of 1991 childcare legislation, new child protection guidelines for dealing with suspected abuse cases, improved family support services, and cooperation between various agencies, including gardaí and health boards." (The Tribune) In this case a girl had been physically and sexually abused by her father for 13 years even though the family had come to the attention of the social services on a number of occasions.

Yet if the 1993 report could not prevent the Fitzgerald and McColgan cases how can we be sure that the Roscommon case will prevent any current or future child abuse and suffering in the home. Most importantly we should remember that these are not just 'cases' we are talking of but rather too many individual children who suffered appalling abuse in it's many insiduous forms, at the hands of a parent or parents. An apology after the fact can not give a person back the childhood they should have had or Kelly back her life.
Ireland will wait...and wait....and wait....till perhaps we have a baby P(although we already have had the equivalent...) and then MAYBE...(but it is a maybe) we will learn.


It really worries me that on a site like this....(suposedly) a broad spectrum of all political types...that postings like these fade so quickly....(and those highlighting other social and health inequalities)....while those whose wish to expose our past inequalities flourish.

Perhaps the Celtic Tiger ethos is still alive and kicking.
"I'm doing fine mate....**** you"....

??
 

berberie

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Apr 26, 2009
Messages
162
Ireland will wait...and wait....and wait....till perhaps we have a baby P(although we already have had the equivalent...) and then MAYBE...(but it is a maybe) we will learn.


It really worries me that on a site like this....(suposedly) a broad spectrum of all political types...that postings like these fade so quickly....(and those highlighting other social and health inequalities)....while those whose wish to expose our past inequalities flourish.

Perhaps the Celtic Tiger ethos is still alive and kicking.
"I'm doing fine mate....**** you"....

??
I agree wholeheartedly Spider. I am so obsessed with this country protecting it's children and youth but when I ring one minister's office with questions they tell me it's not in their remit and tell me to ring another office, the second office gives me the number of the first office phoned and says it's their responsibility!!!

So who is responsible for protecting our children, and the question is does one person in any of these actual offices care?? Have they become so desensitised that they constantly deny responsibility and pass the buck? Until of course another case arises and we hear the usual rhetoric from faceless, nameless people where no individual is actually accountable for allowing a child to suffer!

The latest Baby P case we had here was little Sefora down in Tralee. Postmortem showed that she had older scars, not just those inflicted by her mother on the night when she soiled her bed. Her mother was not charged with murder or even manslaughter, rather 'wilful ill treatment in a manner likely to cause injury or suffering'. She received a 4 year sentence with time off for time served. This woman had absconded to England for 5 years after her initial arrest!! Yes she stated she had suffered in various ways at the hands of various men, is this an excuse to beat your children. No!
 

Tomas Mor

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Very big issues here. The fact that it was the children themselves who rescued themselves says it all. The care of children is so important, and that so many parents are simply unfit to have proper care of children means the state must at all times be alert. And what of this right wing catholic organisation that stuck it's nosey nose into the matter and succeeded in the high court in blocking the limited action that was being taken.
 

Vega1447

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What is the name of the RW Catholic organisation

... that took the HC case?
Sure a matter of public record?
Or was case heard in camera?

Surprised *their* anonymity is being preserved.
 

b.a. baracus

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Feb 3, 2009
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... that took the HC case?
Sure a matter of public record?
Or was case heard in camera?

Surprised *their* anonymity is being preserved.
Did they take a case or did they support the mother in taking a case? Same difference really. Im not sure if it was a "group" as such but I know the person involved. I'm sure it was reported in the media when the case first came out but I won't name just in case.
 

Vega1447

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Did they take a case or did they support the mother in taking a case? Same difference really. Im not sure if it was a "group" as such but I know the person involved. I'm sure it was reported in the media when the case first came out but I won't name just in case.
OK. Is the issue here fear of a libel action or ?? contempt of court?
 

Tomas Mor

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This bit from SI of 25th.Jan 2009 throws some light on it- perhaps it was in a support role.
"The role of Bean Ui Chribin, now a post-mistress in Santry, Dublin, would have been a bit part in an appalling tragedy but for the fact that by helping their mother take court action to keep her children eight years ago, the children were condemned to another four years of cruelty, inflicted on them under the noses of health workers who politely sipped tea in their front room".
 

b.a. baracus

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Most of the focus of the criticism at the moment is focussed on the HSE as an organisation. Unquestionably the HSE deserves criticism but should more focus not be put on the individual social workers in this case? The State can enact any laws or make any constitutional change it wishes but if the people on the front line do not use the powers available to them then they are wasting their time. The 1991 Childcare Act contains provisions allowing the enforcement of supervision orders in cases of child neglect. Why did the social workers in this case not use the powers they had?

Say I work in a private business and a new policy to reduce theft by customers is introduced. If theft continues unabated because I, as a staff member, fail to implement the policy then how is the business owner to blame? The business owner has introduced a policy and told me to implement it. If I ignore this I should be disciplined or eventually sacked. Should the social workers in this case not have been disciplined or sacked for ignoring the powers available to them?
 

SeanieFitz

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Sep 13, 2010
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i agree with berberie's post, child protection is extremly complex and emotive. ivan yates was like a rabid dog this morning on his show with Barry Andrews (who, i must say, spoke an awful lot of sense) bellowing for accountablity. while i agree there has to be accountability in the HSE it has to spread much wider than that. HSE, schools, doctors, neighbours, the whole community has to be accountable! SOCIETY needs to be accountable! i heard this morning that relatives of the children have stated that HSE staff should be held accountable, i agree but the relatives surely have some responsibility as well!!!!!!!!!
after the baby p case i remember reading an interview with the Manager of the Local Authority in Birmingham that has responsibility for social workers and he mentioned that they had vacancies for over 140 social workers in Birmingham that they could not fill! the turnover of staff is horrific and we can criticise the Social Workers but I would not like to do their "job" for a day!
 

The Caped Cod

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The social services have their part of the blame but why haven't any charges been brought againt the ultra-catholic group that supported teh parents in blocking social workers? They seem to be quite guilty of putting those children in further harm by preventing the social workers from doing their jobs.
 

Toland

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The social services have their part of the blame but why haven't any charges been brought againt the ultra-catholic group that supported teh parents in blocking social workers? They seem to be quite guilty of putting those children in further harm by preventing the social workers from doing their jobs.
They should certainly be named and shamed.

This business needs fore and surnames to be revealed, and not just the fore and surnames of the shadowy people in the ultra -catholic group.
 
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