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Rough Justice from The Teaching Council

Half Nelson

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
21,733
Professional misconduct by a registered teacher
is defined
in Section 41 of the Act in the following
terms:
“(a) engaging in conduct which is contrary to a
code of professional conduct established by the
Council under section 7(2)(b);
(b) engaging in any improper conduct in his or
her professional capacity or otherwise by reason
of which he or she is unfit to teach.”
These are serious matters, leading to investigations, hearings, discipline and, in extreme cases, suspension.

But there's another, even more serious matter, which can lead to instant dismissal from the teaching profession.
It is - neglecting to pay your €65 to The Teaching Council - no investigation, no hearings... out you go! With potentially devastating consequences for pay, service tenure, seniority and pension entitlements.

This is teachers' treatment of their fellow teachers.

Listen
RTÉ - Liveline
 


storybud1

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
6,742
These are serious matters, leading to investigations, hearings, discipline and, in extreme cases, suspension.

But there's another, even more serious matter, which can lead to instant dismissal from the teaching profession.
It is - neglecting to pay your €65 to The Teaching Council - no investigation, no hearings... out you go! With potentially devastating consequences for pay, service tenure, seniority and pension entitlements.

This is teachers' treatment of their fellow teachers.

Listen
RTÉ - Liveline
Union cartels are not new ? you just have to pay the €65 and then also work to dismantle it from the inside, after a while if you are good enough and garner enough support you will get free membership or something else, squeaky wheel gets the oil, spoiled huffs get you no where.

There are loads of Pat Hickeys out there and they know their game , you just have to take support away from them and never fight them, take away the oxygen not engage , the military have won more wars by disrupting supply lines and not actually winning battles.
 

Orbit v2

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Joined
Dec 8, 2010
Messages
11,716
How did teachers ever survive without the teaching council? Once you create a quango like this, it just keeps expanding on its mission and because it's statutory, there's nothing teachers can do about it. I'd say in this case, the teacher might have a case in court for the disproportionate nature of the "punishment", but that costs money too.
 

Prester Jim

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Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
10,074
Union cartels are not new ? you just have to pay the €65 and then also work to dismantle it from the inside, after a while if you are good enough and garner enough support you will get free membership or something else, squeaky wheel gets the oil, spoiled huffs get you no where.

There are loads of Pat Hickeys out there and they know their game , you just have to take support away from them and never fight them, take away the oxygen not engage , the military have won more wars by disrupting supply lines and not actually winning battles.
It isn't a union although the unions agreed to it ages ago for some insane reason. Completely unnecessary and perverse in its workings, it has been going for not long off a decade and has just been charging teachers and storing up the dues for a fund to pay for their public inquisitions.
The social workers have a similar organisation except they have a much larger fee to pay for the same non-existent service, they were being asked to pay over 200 a year to have some inadequate social worker and govt cronys live the good life and judge them at thier expense, the fee was reduced but is still absurd for an organisation no-one needs or asked for.
All the things ministers could have done to improve public services but they chose to spend their time doing this cr@p.
 

Dynamo

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Joined
Apr 16, 2013
Messages
966
The Teachers Council is a body established to oversee the profession and to maintain/improve standards. all very good and supported by all, including the unions, but obviously their prime motivator is self preservation (as with all quangos) and hence the over reaction to any teacher not paying up.
I think similar happenings in nursing and some other professions. if teachers don't like it they should get their unions to seek a change to the practice.
 

The Field Marshal

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Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
44,408
I heard this long extended complaint litany yesterday.

Yes the woman does have a point but the pure length of the whingefest just reinforces all the worst stereotypes about Irish teachers.

Moaners and whiners par excellance.
 

gatsbygirl20

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Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
22,790
How did teachers ever survive without the teaching council? Once you create a quango like this, it just keeps expanding on its mission and because it's statutory, there's nothing teachers can do about it. I'd say in this case, the teacher might have a case in court for the disproportionate nature of the "punishment", but that costs money too.
It's a professional body to register teachers, make sure they cannot be in a classroom without proper qualifications, training and Garda clearance, etc and to maintain and improve professional standards.

It regulates the behaviour and professional competence of teaches in the classroom, and has the power to strike off teachers who under-perform or are in breach of their professional codes

It provides teachers with a handbook of professional conduct, outlining the competencies, professional behaviour, in-career development, etc which teachers are obliged to respect if they wish to remain on the register

Initially, the money it collected was regarded as a sort of war chest to fight any legal action brought by teachers,. But no doubt, like with other quangos, a lot goes on salaries, expenses, admin, etc

Other professional groups have the same setup. Being regarded and paid as a professional teacher who can enter a classroom and be entrusted with the nations' children, is not an automatic right. Teachers now are overseen, regularly inspected, monitored.

It's not just about what teachers want. It's so that the general populace and parents can have confidence in the teaching profession.
 
Last edited:

Uganda

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Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Messages
9,633
I heard this long extended complaint litany yesterday.

Yes the woman does have a point but the pure length of the whingefest just reinforces all the worst stereotypes about Irish teachers.

Moaners and whiners par excellance.
And we should remember that the board of the council is overwhelmingly comprised of teachers or their trade union representatives.
 

carlovian

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
5,189
The Teachers Council is a body established to oversee the profession and to maintain/improve standards. all very good and supported by all, including the unions, but obviously their prime motivator is self preservation (as with all quangos) and hence the over reaction to any teacher not paying up.
I think similar happenings in nursing and some other professions. if teachers don't like it they should get their unions to seek a change to the practice.
37 members on the teachers council

thats a lot of expenses

Council Members - Teaching Council
 

gatsbygirl20

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Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
22,790
For years people whined that teachers were not properly inspected, could never be sacked, etc

Now teachers are one of the most inspected professions anywhere, and a professional body has been set up to regulate them, ensure they are performing in the classroom, that they are behaving professionally in their dealings with their young charges, that they regularly attend in-career training to keep up to date, that they can be struck off the register for under-performance, etc etc

But people are still complaining.

Naturally teachers don't like paying 65 Euro to stay registered. Nobody likes parting with cash. But this is the same setup that exists with many other professional bodies--except many have to pay a lot more.

Of course it's annoying that Council members have nice salaries and expenses, etc I guess it's a much nicer gig than battling teenagers in a classroom, but the teachers on the council were elected by their peers. No use begrudging. Join a quango. That's my advice to all my students. Forget work.
 

silverharp

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Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
15,936
Most companies pay your membership subs, why not schools?
 

carlovian

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Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
5,189
For years people whined that teachers were not properly inspected, could never be sacked, etc

Now teachers are one of the most inspected professions anywhere, and a professional body has been set up to regulate them, ensure they are performing in the classroom, that they are behaving professionally in their dealings with their young charges, that they regularly attend in-career training to keep up to date, that they can be struck off the register for under-performance, etc etc

But people are still complaining.

Naturally teachers don't like paying 65 Euro to stay registered. Nobody likes parting with cash. But this is the same setup that exists with many other professional bodies--except many have to pay a lot more.
Seems the teacher in this case was treated very harshly though.

Even the Tv licence crew send out a few red warning letters.

And to break her service over 65 euro a few months late.
 

gatsbygirl20

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Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
22,790
Seems the teacher in this case was treated very harshly though.

Even the Tv licence crew send out a few red warning letters.

And to break her service over 65 euro a few months late.
I'm terrible for not paying things on time

The Council has sent me registered letters begging me to please pay or I'll be struck off, and frantic emails explaining the whole blah-blah...

At the last minute I always make it in under the wire.

I understood that the Council always gave you loads of warnings.

Maybe they're fed up with people like me taking the p1ss and have decided that's it,.... one strike and you're out...
 

gatsbygirl20

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
22,790
Most companies pay your membership subs, why not schools?
Because schools won't give you a whiteboard marker..or a pen, these days...

I have to buy my own textbooks --a lot more expensive than the Teaching Council fee..

God be with the good old days when this stuff was all provided.

The rot set in when there was no money for IT and teachers started bringing in their own laptops..
 

The Field Marshal

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Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
44,408
And we should remember that the board of the council is overwhelmingly comprised of teachers or their trade union representatives.
I expect they spend their time fretting and complaining about the regulations they are forced to work under for what they see as poor pay.

Seems pretty standard-issue, state-recognised self-regulation to me.

Of course some people don't like it.
The woman had a very valid point despite all the long whingeing.

Your post implies that officious, petty and rigid state bureaucracy is somehow acceptable?
 

cricket

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
14,029
It's a professional body to register teachers, make sure they cannot be in a classroom without proper qualifications, training and Garda clearance, etc and to maintain and improve professional standards.

It regulates the behaviour and professional competence of teaches in the classroom, and has the power to strike off teachers who under-perform or are in breach of their professional codes

It provides teachers with a handbook of professional conduct, outlining the competencies, professional behaviour, in-career development, etc which teachers are obliged to respect if they wish to remain on the register

Initially, the money it collected was regarded as a sort of war chest to fight any legal action brought by teachers,. But no doubt, like with other quangos, a lot goes on salaries, expenses, admin, etc

Other professional groups have the same setup. Being regarded and paid as a professional teacher who can enter a classroom and be entrusted with the nations' children, is not an automatic right. Teachers now are overseen, regularly inspected, monitored.

It's not just about what teachers want. It's so that the general populace and parents can have confidence in the teaching profession.
Their very reason for existing, as outlined here, seems to be what one would expect from the DOE in the first place.
 

talkingshop

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
27,156
Seems the teacher in this case was treated very harshly though.

Even the Tv licence crew send out a few red warning letters.

And to break her service over 65 euro a few months late.
She was sent an email which she claims not to have got. Also, quite a way into her whine on Joe Duffy yesterday, it transpired that they 'phoned her as well to remind her to pay. Now she is registered again, I gather. Also it was unclear exactly what financial loss she is at over this?

We all have to meet deadlines - car insurance, house insurance etc. - if you don't pay then your car/house is not insured if something goes wrong. That's life. Not sure why this complaint is worth having on national radio.
 

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