Royal Navy is too small to manage UK interests

Myler

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The cornerstone of Irish Defence policy is we don't need to be serious about military stuff, as the Brits will do it anyway. By looking after themselves, they'll inadvertently look after us.

It's the policy that got us through WW2, so it can't be laughed out of Court.

But do we need to reconsider it, in the light of the UK being unable to defend its merchant shipping? In living memory, Argentina took some islands off them, and had to give them back. Now Iran gives them two fingers, apparently unafraid of any consequence
www.ft.com/content/c443b672-abba-11e9-8030-530adfa879c2

Mr Ellwood conceded that more money would be needed at the Ministry of Defence if Britain were to continue playing a global role. “If we want to continue playing a role on the international stage, bearing in mind that threats are changing . . . then we must invest more in our defence, including our Royal Navy,” he said. “Our Royal Navy is too small to manage our interests across the globe, if that’s our future intentions, and that’s something the next prime minister will need to recognise.”
 


rainmaker

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The cornerstone of Irish Defence policy is we don't need to be serious about military stuff, as the Brits will do it anyway. By looking after themselves, they'll inadvertently look after us.

It's the policy that got us through WW2, so it can't be laughed out of Court.

But do we need to reconsider it, in the light of the UK being unable to defend its merchant shipping? In living memory, Argentina took some islands off them, and had to give them back. Now Iran gives them two fingers, apparently unafraid of any consequence
He's referring to globally rather than regionally.
 

Ardillaun

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Perhaps UK interests should be trimmed to fit the size of the fleet? For example, if the Royal Navy was just defending its own waters it would be well able for the job. Needless to say, we Irish should be more serious about defending ourselves.
 

Dame_Enda

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I've always found it odd that for a party that so reveres its former Great Power status, successive Tory governments have been systematically dismantling their conventional armed forces for decades. I recall this was also a controversy during the John Major govt when defence reviews invariably became a byword for cuts.
 

redneck

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I heard recently on a UK TV program about defence one of the contributors saying basically- "Lets get behind Big brother,ie the US military." They will protect us. So it is really the US who some in Britain are looking too for defence. In much the same way we look to the British.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Well the Trident programme is an American built resource. You don't think they are going to give anyone that kind of weaponry AND autonomy to use it? There'll be back doors into all the software.

You don't hear much about the tests on Trident these days. There was one some years back which went badly wrong, ISTR, and the submarine test launch before that produced a very wonky and curly contrail behind it before it dove back into the sea.

There is a briefing by COBRA for all incoming Prime Ministers. That is where the real state of the world and the UK's place in it is laid bare. I would love to be a fly on the wall for that one, as I suspect the UK has had no defence autonomy since the Suez Crisis.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
The Americans tried to insist we not to retake the Falklands.
Had more to do with their involvement in South and Central American countries. The UK were receiving US intel on the exact positioning of Argentine vessels at all times through that conflict.

US Satellite data, sonar in the region, the lot. The Argentinians had no such intel.
 

Ardillaun

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The Americans tried to insist we not to retake the Falklands.
Did I say that about the Falklands? With any luck Britain won’t have to defend them again. Anyway, it may be time to focus on regional threats which are significant enough.
 

redneck

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Ronald Reagan was obsessed with Communism. The Argentine junta were supposedly fighting communism in Argentina. He was concerned about what would happen if Junta were overthrown.
That said, US Military came down decisively on the side of their Nato ally Britain. And helped win the Falklands war. The special relationship triumphed over Reagan's fear of communism.
 

rainmaker

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Had more to do with their involvement in South and Central American countries.
Of course. They were trying to keep Argentina on side, Galtieri was a key ally of theirs.
The UK were receiving US intel on the exact positioning of Argentine vessels at all times through that conflict.
Indeed, but initially the Reagan administration were anathema to the idea of their man losing a war & destabilizing his position.

Once they realized the British could no not be dissuaded they provided absolutely invaluable intel.
 

rainmaker

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Did I say that about the Falklands? With any luck Britain won’t have to defend them again.
Not for a while. The Falklands is well garrisoned, and the Argentinians have a navy that cannot put to sea and their air force no longer has jets.
 

cozzy121

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Apologies for the source, but useful nonetheless

16371668-7274533-image-a-7_1563852112036.jpg

 

RasherHash

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The cornerstone of Irish Defence policy is we don't need to be serious about military stuff, as the Brits will do it anyway. By looking after themselves, they'll inadvertently look after us.

It's the policy that got us through WW2, so it can't be laughed out of Court.

But do we need to reconsider it, in the light of the UK being unable to defend its merchant shipping? In living memory, Argentina took some islands off them, and had to give them back. Now Iran gives them two fingers, apparently unafraid of any consequence
Where do the brits get of thinking they should be ruling the waves in 2019?

You're a little country in the north Atlantic, just mind your own business.

Iac it's the yanks who rule the roost, the brits are like tuppence ha'penny corner boys :rolleyes:
 

rainmaker

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Apologies for the source, but useful nonetheless

16371668-7274533-image-a-7_1563852112036.jpg

That table is a little dated re the carrier strike capability. The Jets for QEII are coming on line now, and her trial phase is nearly over.

The PoW is due to start her sea trials this year. The intention is to to have one at sea and deployable at any one time, & the other one in readiness.

And it should be pointed out that they are far bigger and more capable than post war carriers the RN has ever had.
 


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