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RTE Prime Time report and debate tonight on Metro North plan


Grumpy Jack

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Prime Time on RTE 1 tonight reporting on Metro North project.

The RPA's Metro North Projector Director will be interviewed so we should get some accurate facts and figures ahead of the Railway Order decision due from An Bord Pleanala next week.

I believe they will then have Minister Eamon Ryan and Trinity economist Sean Barrett debating MN.

RT News - Prime Time - 21st October 2010

Metro North is the sort of project that has always raised the hackles of some economists. To them, Metro North, looks suspiciously like a big shiny vanity project, of the type that is beloved of engineers and Government Ministers the world over, but one which a medium-sized low density city could never really justify.

But if you are stuck in a traffic jam trying to get out of any of the satellite towns of North Co. Dublin every morning, Metro North might just look like the most vital piece of infrastructure this country has ever planned. This is what we will be trying to answer on Thursday's Prime Time; does the demand for public transport in North Co. Dublin really justify a multi-billion euro Metro, or has the economic collapse rendered all the projections used to justify it meaningless? And even if it’s a great project, can we justify it while we are talking about cutting up €1 billion from the health budget?

Donogh Diamond
Also RPA have also put up some videos on YouTube showing computer mock-ups of the Metro North and Metro West routes.

The Railway Order decision on Metro North is due from An Bord Pleanala in the next week while the RPA lodged the Railway Order application for Metro West with ABP earlier this week.

The West video appears to show that Metro West can run on to the Airport on Metro North from the Dardistown stop - or in to town.

Is this the plan? If so, it would certainly tie-in with what was suggested in the DTO's Platform for Change from 2000.

Metro North: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/user/RPALuasMetro#p/a/u/1/HgwYT_4Pr9k]YouTube - RPALuasMetro's Channel[/ame]

Metro West: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5prJe0l7M64"]YouTube - Metro_West_3D_Animation_Railway_Order_Edit.wmv[/ame]
 


hmmm

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Sorry to go off topic, but I hope it won't be the usual PT debate of 4 people on for 5 minutes in total each being given 5 seconds to answer a question. This sort of long term capital spend deserves a reasoned debate.
 

Grumpy Jack

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This is what Gerry Murphy, chief of the new National Transport Authority said about Metro North and Dart Underground in the Sunday Business Post last weekend.

Joined-up thinking on transport | The Post

With regards to Metro North, Murphy said the government ‘‘has to make decisions’’ about the financing of it, but that it was a project he wanted to ‘‘continue now and into the future’’.

‘‘There was a business case prepared for this, and it was independently assessed to show that it has significant benefits over costs," he said.

‘‘The Metro gets mislabelled as a ‘train to the airport’, when it actually is about serving Swords and the major population increase there, as well as servicing major hubs like Ballymun, Croke Park and the Mater Hospital.

‘‘There is a lot of debate about cost, but next year, for example, the total bill for enabling works would be €75 million, and that would raise to €175 million in 2012, compared with the annual subvention of €275 million for CIE."

He said that people needed to understand that five million journeys were currently made every day in the greater Dublin area, and that was set to grow to seven million by 2020.

‘‘You can’t have high-end economic activity in a capital city where the average car speed is nine miles an hour.

The Metro is not a stand-alone project, it is part of an overall integration strategy that is central to the development of transport corridors to make a network which is more efficient and much better connected."

The Dart Underground Interconnector, now proposed to run from the Docklands to Inchicore, is also an important part of that goal, according to Murphy. He described it as a ‘‘curved line that will directly connect the south of the country with the north’’.

People arriving in Heuston from Cork or Kerry could use it to connect to Connolly, from where they could catch a train to Belfast and elsewhere.

‘‘Again, work on this will only cost in the region of €25 million next year," he said.
Finally gives some cost figures on the cost to the State in 2011 and 2012 for enabling works prior to the main PPP construction contract - a total of €250m.

He also said there are 5 MILLION journeys in Dublin every day and that will rise to 7M by 2020.
 
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Michael Taft on Prime-Time. Opinions?

I was fascinated by Michael Taft just now on Prime Time. Thing is, I've no idea about fiscal policies or the like. But he seemed to make a lot of sense in what he was saying.

I ask for opinions because I knew Michael Taft years ago, always liked him a lot, lost track of him due to party politics, and I wonder is my genuine liking for the man colouring what I thought of his ideas? I thought he made perfect sense but then, you know me, I've a screw loose.
 

alonso

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Sean Barrett is a fcking bluffer of the highest order. A nonsense peddler and a bloody disgrace. Yes. A bloody disgrace.
 

Ultor

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Eamonn Ryan on Primetime.... Useless

Metro north to be built starting in 2011 for a cost of €2 billion, or €3 billion, or €6 billion or another unknown figure.

Metro North going to take 20 mins to get to the airport when it take 12 mins by the port tunnel and 15 from the m50.

Ridiculous.

Why not extend the Luas system for fractions of the price covering a wider area?
 

dotski_w_

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I was fascinated by Michael Taft just now on Prime Time. Thing is, I've no idea about fiscal policies or the like. But he seemed to make a lot of sense in what he was saying.

I ask for opinions because I knew Michael Taft years ago, always liked him a lot, lost track of him due to party politics, and I wonder is my genuine liking for the man colouring what I thought of his ideas? I thought he made perfect sense but then, you know me, I've a screw loose.
he's an interesting enough Keynesian analysis of the Irish situation. His blog is quite good at Notes On The Front
 

loner

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Am looking at Eamonn Ryan --is he living in cloud cuckoo land?
 

Ultor

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cloud cuckoo land has been his address for the last ten years!
 

alonso

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Did you listen at all?

He said it wouild cost 2.5 to 3 billion and we wouldn't pay a penny until the trains were running in 2017. It may take 12 minutes via the Port Tunnel but how long does it take to GET TO THE PORT TUNNEL. Ditto the M50 - Have you ever driven in Dublin?

As for your last question, Metro North IS an extension of the light rail system ffs
 

toasteroven

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exactly the luas would be way more economical. This is just vested interests getting their way with the naive green muppet babies like Eamon Ryan.

And would they ever stop talking about Dublin and perhaps discuss the death of rural Ireland and also Limerick Regeneration??

I am sick of hearing about Dublin.
 

fgrep

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Great programme tonight .For once Miriam let the 'lesser lights' have their say. Yes i thought Michael was very good and raised points that need to be addressed. Sean Barrett was exellent as well. In fairness to Eamonn Ryan he did not try to hide behind the usual banalities (a la Billy Kellegher) . He fought his corner .
 

toasteroven

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What about an electrified bus system in Limerick or Galway or Cork which would cost less than the daft Metro and create jobs outside Dublin. Where businesses and the unemployed are starved of hope, respect and input from this clearly biased dublin government.
 

alonso

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The Metro is a higher capacity Luas. It is way way faster though.

What vested interests are you on about? or aree you just spouting cliches?

You do know that the 2 recent Luas extensions were 2 of the most "veted interest compromised" pieces of infrastructure in our history?

As for Rural ireland, it kills itself depite all the funding from urban generated wealth, but I have great great sympathy for Limerick regeneration.
 

CarnivalOfAction

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I was fascinated by Michael Taft just now on Prime Time. Thing is, I've no idea about fiscal policies or the like. But he seemed to make a lot of sense in what he was saying.

I ask for opinions because I knew Michael Taft years ago, always liked him a lot, lost track of him due to party politics, and I wonder is my genuine liking for the man colouring what I thought of his ideas? I thought he made perfect sense but then, you know me, I've a screw loose.
Didn't see it but Taft isn't daft; he's opposed to the Crazy Cuts Con.

Today’s ESRI report, detailing the enormous damage to our economy and society of monetarist austerity from now to 2014, highlights the dangers of an unthinking cosy consensus.

It was similar consensii that lemd to light regulation, low income tax, no
wealth tax, Anglo, the building bubble, “go and commit suicide”, “turning the
corner” and Lisbon 2 (where the consensus had to be “encouraged”).

Anyone brave enough to challenge this crazy consensus was arrogantly dismissed as an “economic illiterate”, who shouldn’t be listened to.

Now, amazingly, the Shinners are agreeing with mainstream economists like ESRI, Ray Kinsella and Colm Rapple. I hope that doesn’t become another cozy consensus.
 

Grumpy Jack

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Sean Barrett is a fcking bluffer of the highest order. A nonsense peddler and a bloody disgrace. Yes. A bloody disgrace.
I thgough Ryan was sound enough and put up good arguments but you cannot debate facts with a clown like Barrett - Myers would have made as much sense FFS.

How the hell does Barrett have any credibility left? He opposed Dart and Luas and was spectacularly wrong on both. and now he's at it again.

It was partly his influence that led to the original Dart project being cancelled in the 1980s by the Fitzgerald-Spring FG-Lab govt because they listened to the tool. What a mistake that was. Someone should haul Garrett out and quiz him on this - hopefully he'd have the sense to say he got it wrong and urge current politicians not to make the same calamitous error.

The last people who should be listened to are f**king economists - most got it wrong during the boom and most are still getting wrong now.

Worst thing out of this is that Gilmore and other opportunists will pay heed to that idiot Barrett.

Did you hear him at the end? "Our children and grandchildren will be paying for this" - Good, cos they'll also be using it.

Much better that than pouring €50bn the big black hole of the banks which they'll also be paying for.

Christ Almighty, I'm seething after listening to that Barrett fool.
 

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