• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please contact us.

Russia 'backed Litvinenko murder' (Original Thread)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Aindriu

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
8,621
The murder of former Russian agent Alexander Litvinenko was carried out with the backing of the Russian state, Whitehall sources have told the BBC.

A senior security official told Newsnight there were "very strong indications it was a state action".

Mr Litvinenko, who was a fierce critic of former Russian President Vladimir Putin, was poisoned in London in 2006.

Interesting story here.
 


seabhcan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,228
I thought this "story" was very funny. I had just finished watching a recording of the BBC program on the 9/11 conspiracy, which concluded, as they always do, with a famous politician telling us there are never any conspiracies.

Then I turn on Newsnight, and their main story is that the Russian government conspired to kill a nobody former spy with the most ludicrous way possible. Their evidence for this story: "security sources".

A more honest headline would have been: "Brown wants better relations with Russia, MI5 tries to prevent this with conspiracy theory leak".
 

Conor the Bold

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
3,291
seabhcan said:
I thought this "story" was very funny. I had just finished watching a recording of the BBC program on the 9/11 conspiracy, which concluded, as they always do, with a famous politician telling us there are never any conspiracies.

Then I turn on Newsnight, and their main story is that the Russian government conspired to kill a nobody former spy with the most ludicrous way possible. Their evidence for this story: "security sources".

A more honest headline would have been: "Brown wants better relations with Russia, MI5 tries to prevent this with conspiracy theory leak".
Did he? Thats amazing considering that they were showing footage of Nixon and 'There will be no whitewash, at the whitehouse' i.e. Watergate.

I.e. there is a difference between a state like Russia possibly murdering a dissident located in a foreign country and a state like the US possibly murdering 3000 of its own citizens...

Or isn't there?
 

stanley

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
9,476
The Russians sent a major message to Berevosky that they have very long arms and can reach him whenever they want, just need to know where all his money is first so they can steal it at the same time.
It also lets the other Oligarchs know that they are not safe anywhere if they do not bend to the wishes of the Kremlin, even golden boy, Abramovich.
You could probably safely bet they have got their grubby hands on Milosovic's ill-gotten gains in return for protection for his family now resident in Moscow.
 

seabhcan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,228
Conor the Bold said:
seabhcan said:
I thought this "story" was very funny. I had just finished watching a recording of the BBC program on the 9/11 conspiracy, which concluded, as they always do, with a famous politician telling us there are never any conspiracies.

Then I turn on Newsnight, and their main story is that the Russian government conspired to kill a nobody former spy with the most ludicrous way possible. Their evidence for this story: "security sources".

A more honest headline would have been: "Brown wants better relations with Russia, MI5 tries to prevent this with conspiracy theory leak".
Did he? Thats amazing considering that they were showing footage of Nixon and 'There will be no whitewash, at the whitehouse' i.e. Watergate.

I.e. there is a difference between a state like Russia possibly murdering a dissident located in a foreign country and a state like the US possibly murdering 3000 of its own citizens...

Or isn't there?
Whether the US was involved in 9/11 or not isn't really the point.

The BBC is repeating as fact what MI5 want repeated, at the time they want it repeated. Uncritically, repeated as fact. All the odds and ends of the theory are swept aside. They are doing exactly what they had criticised the "conspiracy theorists" for doing (which I agree they do).

Russia does plenty of dodgy things, some of which the western establishment wants us to know about and some that it doesn't. (i.e the BBC will find "security sources" for some stories and run them, for others they will find no government sources and drop the story.) If you read the Russian press, it is a mirror image of the UK press. Theorys about what MI5 does are repeated as fact if the power that be want it, and ignored if they don't.

So why are they telling us this, now? Because Brown is trying to smooth over the UK-Russia rift, and MI5 don't want that to succeed.
 

Conor the Bold

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
3,291
seabhcan said:
Conor the Bold said:
seabhcan said:
I thought this "story" was very funny. I had just finished watching a recording of the BBC program on the 9/11 conspiracy, which concluded, as they always do, with a famous politician telling us there are never any conspiracies.

Then I turn on Newsnight, and their main story is that the Russian government conspired to kill a nobody former spy with the most ludicrous way possible. Their evidence for this story: "security sources".

A more honest headline would have been: "Brown wants better relations with Russia, MI5 tries to prevent this with conspiracy theory leak".
Did he? Thats amazing considering that they were showing footage of Nixon and 'There will be no whitewash, at the whitehouse' i.e. Watergate.

I.e. there is a difference between a state like Russia possibly murdering a dissident located in a foreign country and a state like the US possibly murdering 3000 of its own citizens...

Or isn't there?
Whether the US was involved in 9/11 or not isn't really the point.

The BBC is repeating as fact what MI5 want repeated, at the time they want it repeated. Uncritically, repeated as fact. All the odds and ends of the theory are swept aside. They are doing exactly what they had criticised the "conspiracy theorists" for doing (which I agree they do).

Russia does plenty of dodgy things, some of which the western establishment wants us to know about and some that it doesn't. (i.e the BBC will find "security sources" for some stories and run them, for others they will find no government sources and drop the story.) If you read the Russian press, it is a mirror image of the UK press. Theorys about what MI5 does are repeated as fact if the power that be want it, and ignored if they don't.

So why are they telling us this, now? Because Brown is trying to smooth over the UK-Russia rift, and MI5 don't want that to succeed.
Right...

And why exactly does the Security Service not want Brown to succeed?
 

blinding

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
17,400
russia probably did kill Litvinenko but what do we know about him maybe he had it coming.I have a list of enemies that i am emailing to the russians right now .I hope you know who you are.By the way Putin i overheard that Mugabe calling you a russian horses ass what you going to do about it.
 

Conor the Bold

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
3,291
seabhcan said:
Conor the Bold said:
Right...

And why exactly does the Security Service not want Brown to succeed?
Its back to the good old days of the cold war. Watch those spy budgets grow.
Right...

So as well as fighting the new Islamic extremists prelevant in the country, the Security Service wants to return the back to the Cold war... to increase budgets :roll:.

I think the security service budget has already grown quite a bit, and accusing Russia of killing a Russian Dissident is hardly likely to let them grow further.
 

seabhcan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,228
It seems Brown's mission to moscow has been a failure.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 287269.ece

Relations between Britain and Russia remained in the deep freeze last night after Gordon Brown appeared to have made little headway in his first meeting with President Medvedev.

At an hour-long meeting, the Prime Minister protested at the treatment by the Russian authorities of BP, the closure of British Council posts and the refusal to extradite the suspected murderer of the dissident former spy Alexander Litvinenko.

Although there was no stand-up row between the two, neither claimed any breakthrough in relations. At least half of the meeting was taken up with Mr Brown’s complaints.
 

Thac0man

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
6,444
Twitter
twit taa woo
seabhcan said:
It seems Brown's mission to moscow has been a failure.
Yes, though I do not see what breakthrough either side really expected. The current impass perhaps suits Britain better with Russia not keen to deepen its diplomatic and cultural isolation.
 

Wednesday

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 6, 2003
Messages
354
Website
ceadaoin.blogspot.com
seabhcan said:
Then I turn on Newsnight, and their main story is that the Russian government conspired to kill a nobody former spy with the most ludicrous way possible.
He wasn't even a former spy, really. "Spy" implies that he was involved in state secrets. All he was was an informer working for the FSB's organised crime unit.

Where, of course, he had plenty of opportunities to meet people with more motive to kill him than the Kremlin.
 

seabhcan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,228
Thac0man said:
seabhcan said:
It seems Brown's mission to moscow has been a failure.
Yes, though I do not see what breakthrough either side really expected. The current impass perhaps suits Britain better with Russia not keen to deepen its diplomatic and cultural isolation.
Russia's isolation is a bit in the British imagination. "Fog on channel, Europe cut off".
 

seabhcan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,228
Wednesday said:
seabhcan said:
Then I turn on Newsnight, and their main story is that the Russian government conspired to kill a nobody former spy with the most ludicrous way possible.
He wasn't even a former spy, really. "Spy" implies that he was involved in state secrets. All he was was an informer working for the FSB's organised crime unit.

Where, of course, he had plenty of opportunities to meet people with more motive to kill him than the Kremlin.
Indeed. And he wasn't idle after moving to the UK. BBC Radio 4 ran an excellent documentary about 2 years ago which covered what he'd been up to in the UK. He managed to annoy a number of Russian businessmen/mafia, any of which could have afforded the millions of dollars worth of polonium used to kill him.

I don't know who killed him, but I'm fairly sure that if the FSB had wanted him dead it would have been done with more professionalism and without leaving so obvious an evidence trail. He would have probably just had a car accident or been stabbed by some junky on a dark london alley. Certainly, the media circus would have been avoided.
 

stanley

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 20, 2007
Messages
9,476
seabhcan said:
Wednesday said:
seabhcan said:
Then I turn on Newsnight, and their main story is that the Russian government conspired to kill a nobody former spy with the most ludicrous way possible.
He wasn't even a former spy, really. "Spy" implies that he was involved in state secrets. All he was was an informer working for the FSB's organised crime unit.

Where, of course, he had plenty of opportunities to meet people with more motive to kill him than the Kremlin.
Indeed. And he wasn't idle after moving to the UK. BBC Radio 4 ran an excellent documentary about 2 years ago which covered what he'd been up to in the UK. He managed to annoy a number of Russian businessmen/mafia, any of which could have afforded the millions of dollars worth of polonium used to kill him.

The FSB is split into different factions who work independent of each other and very few would know what the other is involved in, they jealously guard their contacts as they are poorly paid and operate like a Mafia family in extotion and protection rackets.
Any FSB lad with half a brain turns into a "biznisman" and bluffs and bullies his way to a fortune just like the guy (?) the Brits accuse of killing Litvinenko.

The decision to kill L in London was probably taken on by one of these factions as a favour to Putin or his mates, arse-licking if you like and the polonium bit because they could and showing off but no way did they think it could be traced back like it was.

At a guess Putin happy with the result but furious about the performance.
 

Thac0man

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
6,444
Twitter
twit taa woo
seabhcan said:
Thac0man said:
seabhcan said:
It seems Brown's mission to moscow has been a failure.
Yes, though I do not see what breakthrough either side really expected. The current impass perhaps suits Britain better with Russia not keen to deepen its diplomatic and cultural isolation.
Russia's isolation is a bit in the British imagination. "Fog on channel, Europe cut off".
Thats why we have so many Russian products on our shelves? So much Russian culture on our TVs? Such vaste cultural interchange and commerce between the EU and Russia? Is this why we in the EU have sooooo many joint diplomatic and political projects ongoing with Russia? Oh and lets not forget our close military co-operation..... all of this is of course no suprise given that Russias own population is comparable to the EUs. :shock:

Someones been drinking the anti-freeze again. ;)
 

seabhcan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
14,228
Thac0man said:
seabhcan said:
Thac0man said:
seabhcan said:
It seems Brown's mission to moscow has been a failure.
Yes, though I do not see what breakthrough either side really expected. The current impass perhaps suits Britain better with Russia not keen to deepen its diplomatic and cultural isolation.
Russia's isolation is a bit in the British imagination. "Fog on channel, Europe cut off".
Thats why we have so many Russian products on our shelves? So much Russian culture on our TVs? Such vaste cultural interchange and commerce between the EU and Russia? Is this why we in the EU have sooooo many joint diplomatic and political projects ongoing with Russia? Oh and lets not forget our close military co-operation..... all of this is of course no suprise given that Russias own population is comparable to the EUs. :shock:

Someones been drinking the anti-freeze again. ;)
So Russia is 'isolated' because we don't show Russian soap opera's? Well then Ireland is fierce isolated from the EU because I've never seen Fair City on Arte.

Fact of the matter is that Russia could continue quite happily without the EU, but we'd have a very cold winter without Russian oil and gas. European politicians make noises about Russia being 'bad', yet we quietly import their oil and gas. Does that make Russia isolated?
 

Partizan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
7,777
It seems Alexander Litvinenko was a paid employee of MI6 when he was murdered.
Also,he was said to be working for spanish secret services.

Alexander Litvinenko murder: British evidence 'shows Russia involved' | World news | The Guardian
There will be more twists and turns in this then the back road to Tramore. Litvinenko got way in over his head in the murky and seedy world of espionage and paid for it with his life. I think that Lugovoi has questions to answer.
 

Andy4571

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 9, 2009
Messages
5,187
There will be more twists and turns in this then the back road to Tramore. Litvinenko got way in over his head in the murky and seedy world of espionage and paid for it with his life. I think that Lugovoi has questions to answer.
But I doubt he ever will.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top