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Russia comes full circle in 100 years




Iphonista

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Jun 6, 2012
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Powerful autocratic leader at the top, bullying the nations on its borders, oppressing ordinary Russians most of whom don't seem to mind, paranoid and suspicious towards the West.... Did Russia change at all? Even during the communist era?
 

Analyzer

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Feb 14, 2011
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46,189
Strange thing is....a lot of those descriptions about a declining industrial base, an rule by an unaccountbale, immoral, reckless elite could also be applied to many western countries as well....

Since the 1990 collapse, Russia has managed to make it's economy more efficient, but it has made it's society more wrecked. It has become like the West. Will they be smart enough to copy the useful ideas from the West, or will they copy the dysfunctional ideas of the West ???
 

Andy4571

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Sep 9, 2009
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5,229
Strange thing is....a lot of those descriptions about a declining industrial base, an rule by an unaccountbale, immoral, reckless elite could also be applied to many western countries as well....

Since the 1990 collapse, Russia has managed to make it's economy more efficient, but it has made it's society more wrecked. It has become like the West. Will they be smart enough to copy the useful ideas from the West, or will they copy the dysfunctional ideas of the West ???
But totally dependent on exports of its natural resources, oil and gas in particular.
 

Partizan

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But totally dependent on exports of its natural resources, oil and gas in particular.
Indeed as it was from the late 1960s and 1970s during the Brezhnev period. Russia today like the USSR then had similar problems, i.e. economic stagnation, creeping corruption, ethnic tensions, demographic decline, increased crackdown on dissent, over dependence on oil and gas exports, inflation as well as declining industrial output/inertia. Russia is papering over the cracks by using its vast oil and gas revenues in the same way that Brezhnev did in the 1970s. When the price fell in the early 1980s, the USSR was in serious trouble.
 

Iphonista

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Russia's needs to accept that it is in fact a western nation in the Judaeo-Christian mold and should work closely with rather than against the EU and US. They're more threatened by Islamic extremism than most countries.

Mind you, I think they're right to be cautious about Syria.
 

seabhcan

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Sep 3, 2007
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Russia's needs to accept that it is in fact a western nation in the Judaeo-Christian mold and should work closely with rather than against the EU and US. They're more threatened by Islamic extremism than most countries.

Mind you, I think they're right to be cautious about Syria.
I would say they are more cautious about Islamic extremism than the West is. After all, unlike the west, they have never funded and trained Islamic terrorists. Neither do they import oil from Saudi Arabia.
 

Analyzer

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Feb 14, 2011
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Indeed as it was from the late 1960s and 1970s during the Brezhnev period. Russia today like the USSR then had similar problems, i.e. economic stagnation, creeping corruption, ethnic tensions, demographic decline, increased crackdown on dissent, over dependence on oil and gas exports, inflation as well as declining industrial output/inertia. Russia is papering over the cracks by using its vast oil and gas revenues in the same way that Brezhnev did in the 1970s. When the price fell in the early 1980s, the USSR was in serious trouble.
One of the results of the Soviet invasion of Aghanistan in the early 1980s, was that the Saudis decided to pump oil to undermine the USSR economically, by driving down the price of oil.

That does not work anymore.
 

Analyzer

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Russia's needs to accept that it is in fact a western nation in the Judaeo-Christian mold and should work closely with rather than against the EU and US. They're more threatened by Islamic extremism than most countries.

Mind you, I think they're right to be cautious about Syria.
They are rational about Syria. The West is compromised.

Of course one of the consequences is that secularists and Shia in the Middle East will look to Russia as a more trustworthy partner than they will view any Western government. In other words, the Russians will have a better quality of loyalty from any allies. The Russians will not be stuck with the likes of Qatar as an ally. Or Saudi Arabia as an ally, when some of it's citizens are trying to commit terrorism against you.
 

Partizan

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One of the results of the Soviet invasion of Aghanistan in the early 1980s, was that the Saudis decided to pump oil to undermine the USSR economically, by driving down the price of oil.

That does not work anymore.
This act drove down the price of oil globally which crippled the USSR not to mention supplying Osama and the lads with training and the best weaponry that Uncle Sam had to offer.
 

Analyzer

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This act drove down the price of oil globally which crippled the USSR not to mention supplying Osama and the lads with training and the best weaponry that Uncle Sam had to offer.
It also paid for an economic stimulus in the US and in Western Europe. Especially Western Europe with it's massive oil import bill.
 

seabhcan

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They are rational about Syria. The West is compromised.

Of course one of the consequences is that secularists and Shia in the Middle East will look to Russia as a more trustworthy partner than they will view any Western government. In other words, the Russians will have a better quality of loyalty from any allies. The Russians will not be stuck with the likes of Qatar as an ally. Or Saudi Arabia as an ally, when some of it's citizens are trying to commit terrorism against you.
The British started funding Islamic terrorism against Russia in the 1790's. That was when British agents started to arm and train the Chechnyan's to resist Russian occupation. Russia has always viewed Islamic movements as a threat.
 

Andy4571

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The British started funding Islamic terrorism against Russia in the 1790's. That was when British agents started to arm and train the Chechnyan's to resist Russian occupation. Russia has always viewed Islamic movements as a threat.
Glad you accept it was an occupation of Chechnya by the Russians and still is.
 

True Republican

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Apr 3, 2008
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putin needs to crush any islamic fundamentalism within russia's borders. As regards russia in the 2011 duma election didn't the hammer and sickle brigade get nearly 20% of the vote, 20 years after communism collapsed.
 

Shpake

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Oct 17, 2012
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Indeed as it was from the late 1960s and 1970s during the Brezhnev period. Russia today like the USSR then had similar problems, i.e. economic stagnation, creeping corruption, ethnic tensions, demographic decline, increased crackdown on dissent, over dependence on oil and gas exports, inflation as well as declining industrial output/inertia. Russia is papering over the cracks by using its vast oil and gas revenues in the same way that Brezhnev did in the 1970s. When the price fell in the early 1980s, the USSR was in serious trouble.
Have to say I just don't getcha. The price of oil (nymex) has been above 80 US dollars for the past three years... reaching 105 twice. They gotta being doing well in the oil bizz at least.
 

parentheses

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Aug 26, 2011
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Russia's needs to accept that it is in fact a western nation in the Judaeo-Christian mold and should work closely with rather than against the EU and US. They're more threatened by Islamic extremism than most countries.

Mind you, I think they're right to be cautious about Syria.
You don't understand. There is a covert alliance between the west and the Islamic fundamentalists. In relaity the west would like nothing better than to see Russia torn apart by civil war and Islamist insurrectionists.

I think there is an agenda to first attack Syria, then Iran. If Iran falls the western forces and their Islamic allies will break up Russia from the south
 

parentheses

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The British started funding Islamic terrorism against Russia in the 1790's. That was when British agents started to arm and train the Chechnyan's to resist Russian occupation. Russia has always viewed Islamic movements as a threat.
Gerat info. You have added to my knowledge. I had imagined the covert alliance between the Moslems and British only went back to the Crimean war.

The enduring hidden alliance between the west and Islamists is something naive people take no account of
 

Warrior of Destiny

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Sep 24, 2010
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I really don't think so, Russia is in a much better place in 2013 than it was in 1913. The people are educated and literate mainly due to what I'll admit is one of Communism's greatest achievements in Russia, the education system. There isn't widespread hunger or threat of a major war. They now have a democratic* system in place of an absolute monarchy. Russia's economic troubles have started to fade and they are initiating programmes to move away from energy dependence such as the Skolkovo project (the one Conor Lenihan vice chairs). Human rights and corruption continues to be an issue but that's something which can be worked on providing Russians vote accordingly. Political freedoms were boosted with the new party legislation brought in last year which allowed hundreds of new parties to form and contest elections.
 

seabhcan

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Sep 3, 2007
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14,327
Gerat info. You have added to my knowledge. I had imagined the covert alliance between the Moslems and British only went back to the Crimean war.

The enduring hidden alliance between the west and Islamists is something naive people take no account of
It probably goes back to the Spanish Armada, when England did a deal with the Ottomans to harass the Spanish fleet as it sailed to dover.
 

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