Russia paid the Taliban for Killing Americans: No US response

owedtojoy

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Report in the New York Times:

American intelligence officials have concluded that a Russian military intelligence unit secretly offered bounties to Taliban-linked militants for killing coalition forces in Afghanistan — including targeting American troops — amid the peace talks to end the long-running war there, according to officials briefed on the matter.

The United States concluded months ago that the Russian unit, which has been linked to assassination attempts and other covert operations in Europe intended to destabilize the West or take revenge on turncoats, had covertly offered rewards for successful attacks last year.
It is not clear at what level this was authorised in the Russian Government, but in an autocratic apparatus like Putin's, individual initiative is seldom encouraged.

The White House was briefed on the intelligence in March; the story strongly implies that Trump is the reason that Washington has done basically nothing.

Four years ago the Russians interfered in an American Presidential Election to help the candidate that eventually won. It later came out that the same candidate (President Trump) had business connections to Russia that he had denied during the campaign. Russia is again set to interfere in this year's election, and the US still has not prepared for it. In fact, President Trump continually calls any talk of Russian interference a "hoax" and "fake news". Trump's Presidency still carries the stigma of the Helsinki meeting with Putin, where he abased himself to give Putin a win on Russian interference.

Trump's weakness on Russia is one of the striking facts of his Presidency, one that was supposed to Make America Great Again. While China is at the moment Trump's main target, Russia and China are close allies who vote together almost always at the UN. Together, they are undermining America internationally.

This latest report is another variable thrown into the mix. How many more provocations will Putin get away with? We await the White House response with interest.


 


Lumpy Talbot

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No
The CIA were doing that all over south east Asia decades ago. And training people to overthrow legitimately elected governments in South America in the 70s and 80s at the 'School of the Americas' which was in any other setting a terrorist training camp.
 

owedtojoy

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The CIA were doing that all over south east Asia decades ago. And training people to overthrow legitimately elected governments in South America in the 70s and 80s at the 'School of the Americas' which was in any other setting a terrorist training camp.
"Both sides do it". Sure, maybe, probably, ....

But it is extraordinary there has been no "appropriate and proportionate" response from the World's Only Superpower, with an Authoritarian Nationalist leader.

For some reason, I keep thinking of this election ad.

 

Clipper

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The CIA were doing that all over south east Asia decades ago. And training people to overthrow legitimately elected governments in South America in the 70s and 80s at the 'School of the Americas' which was in any other setting a terrorist training camp.
Indeed. Any responce by the US would be hypocritical to say the least, they've been doing the same thing for decades. But of course this is for domestic consumption, to damage Trump during an election, not that he needs any help. In any case, the old reliable of blaming Russia is a double edged sword. What are the US supposed to do? Start a war with Russia? It was Hillary's hawkish line in that regard that put me off her. Having to look tough (like Putin) is a sign of an incredibly weak leader.
 

owedtojoy

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Here is the Trump version of the Clinton ad

 

owedtojoy

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Indeed. Any responce by the US would be hypocritical to say the least, they've been doing the same thing for decades. But of course this is for domestic consumption, to damage Trump during an election, not that he needs any help. In any case, the old reliable of blaming Russia is a double edged sword. What are the US supposed to do? Start a war with Russia? It was Hillary's hawkish line in that regard that put me off her. Having to look tough (like Putin) is a sign of an incredibly weak leader.
So letting the Russians mess with your elections and kill your soliders is Making America Great Again?

You could have fooled me.

I think the USA has never looked weaker or more vulnerable. Putin can basically do anything. He can decide to make Trump President again and twist US elections to suit his goal.

LIke, now Trump is withdrawing US troops from Germany on a whim. They are high-fiving in the Kremlin over that.
 

Clipper

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So letting the Russians mess with your elections and kill your soliders is Making America Great Again?

You could have fooled me.

I think the USA has never looked weaker or more vulnerable. Putin can basically do anything.

LIke, now Trump is withdrawing US troops from Germany on a whim. They are high-fiving in the Kremlin over that.
What do you think the US should do? Sabre rattle? Start killing Russian soldiers?

Again, the US has messed with elections and killed soldiers and civilians alike in dozens of countries. Where was your opprobrium then?
 

firefly123

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What do you think the US should do? Sabre rattle? Start killing Russian soldiers?

Again, the US has messed with elections and killed soldiers and civilians alike in dozens of countries. Where was your opprobrium then?
They did indeed. Its wrong.

Trump is meant to be the man's man. AMERICA FIRST.
love the troops.
etc etc.
No response AT ALL to a credible threat to American soldiers? No rattle of a sabre? No taking out of a Russian asset (to make a point)? Nothing.
Now imagine if Obama did that.
The howls of derision. The abuse.

It doesn't play well does it.
 

Clipper

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They did indeed. Its wrong.

Trump is meant to be the man's man. AMERICA FIRST.
love the troops.
etc etc.
No response AT ALL to a credible threat to American soldiers? No rattle of a sabre? No taking out of a Russian asset (to make a point)? Nothing.
Now imagine if Obama did that.
The howls of derision. The abuse.

It doesn't play well does it.
Trump is an idiot so it really doesn't matter what he does.

Taking out a Russian asset? That would be an extremely dangerous thing to do. Killing each others soldiers by proxy is one thing, the Russians and the Amercians have been doing that for decades, but specifically targetting a Russian asset in a military strike? Have you lost leave of your senses?

And yes, if Obama had behaved the way Trump is he'd be vilified by Trump supporters and the GOP alike. A deplorable hypocrisy and indiciative of the mess US politics is currently in but its a fact of life and has been like that for a long time. I dont think provoking WWIII will solve is satisfactorily, do you?
 

Lumpy Talbot

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That's the way the Taliban operate and have always operated. They are after all warlords first and religious nutters second. It has always been that way in Afghanistan as long as the European and American powers along with the Chinese and Russians have been using it as a checkerboard in their Great Game.

The Americans have been paying warlords in Afghanistan in the past for Russian heads and supplying the warlords with the weaponry to do it as well since well before any US soldier set foot in the place.
 

Clipper

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That's the way the Taliban operate and have always operated. They are after all warlords first and religious nutters second. It has always been that way in Afghanistan as long as the European and American powers along with the Chinese and Russians have been using it as a checkerboard in their Great Game.

The Americans have been paying warlords in Afghanistan in the past for Russian heads and supplying the warlords with the weaponry to do it as well since well before any US soldier set foot in the place.
The Mujahideen (Taliban), cultivated, armed and financed by the US state department to kill Russian soldiers. Whats good for the goose etc etc.
 

Jack Walsh

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Trump is an idiot so it really doesn't matter what he does.

Taking out a Russian asset? That would be an extremely dangerous thing to do. Killing each others soldiers by proxy is one thing, the Russians and the Amercians have been doing that for decades, but specifically targetting a Russian asset in a military strike? Have you lost leave of your senses?

And yes, if Obama had behaved the way Trump is he'd be vilified by Trump supporters and the GOP alike. A deplorable hypocrisy and indiciative of the mess US politics is currently in but its a fact of life and has been like that for a long time. I dont think provoking WWIII will solve is satisfactorily, do you?
That cannot be the answer
It's the equivalent of someone breaking Roy Keane's leg with a terrible tackle and the ref says "Roy has initiated many bad tackles over years, so it would be hypocritical of me to take disciplinary action in this instance"

You cannot have a situation where neither side is unaccountable when caught doing deplorable stuff
No one understands this basic tenet better than the security agencies who are most immersed in it

Also, to what end were the Russians doing this?
Having US soldiers assassinated for fun?

Finally, let there be no quibble on this point
Lindsay Graham would have a ****ing meltdown if Obama got this intel and just said "meh"
The hypocrisy of the GOP yet again, is stunning

btw
"Provoking WW3"?
Let's have sense of perspective here
 
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Clipper

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That cannot be the answer
It's the equivalent of someone breaking Roy Keane's leg with a terrible tackle and the ref says "Roy has initiated many bad tackles over years, so it would be hypocritical of me to take disciplinary action in this instance"

You cannot have a situation where neither side is unaccountable when caught doing deplorable stuff
No one understands this basic tenet better than the security agencies who a re most immersed in it

Also, to what end were the Russians doing this?
Having US soldiers assassinated for fun?

Finally, let there be no quibble on this final point
Lindsay Graham would have fu$king meltdown if Obama got this intel and just said "meh"
The hypocrisy of the GOP yet again, is stunning
The point is that there are calls for military action. Which is absolute madness. But tell me this, what sanctions did the US receive when it killed soldiers?

Furthermore, in your analogy, the ref has already ignored the behaviour of one of the players and has done so for decades.
 

firefly123

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Trump is an idiot so it really doesn't matter what he does.

Taking out a Russian asset? That would be an extremely dangerous thing to do. Killing each others soldiers by proxy is one thing, the Russians and the Amercians have been doing that for decades, but specifically targetting a Russian asset in a military strike? Have you lost leave of your senses?

And yes, if Obama had behaved the way Trump is he'd be vilified by Trump supporters and the GOP alike. A deplorable hypocrisy and indiciative of the mess US politics is currently in but its a fact of life and has been like that for a long time. I dont think provoking WWIII will solve is satisfactorily, do you?
Yeah I'm not talking about killing lads in uniforms. This kind of proxy stuff is fair more subtle but gets the message across.

Personally I think its wrong on both sides and I wish they would stop it.
The point I'm making is it doesn't play well to Trumps tough guy image.
Having a bounty put on your troops heads and not shouting about it from the rooftops is just a bad look.
 

owedtojoy

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The point is that there are calls for military action. Which is absolute madness. But tell me this, what sanctions did the US receive when it killed soldiers?

Furthermore, in your analogy, the ref has already ignored the behaviour of one of the players and has done so for decades.
There are calls for an "appropriate and proportionate" response. For example, expulsion of diplomats and oligarchs at least, sequestering their property and freezing their accounts.

Something like Trump did to Iran, for a whole lot less - for adhering to an Agreement.

Not necessarily military action.
 

Clipper

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There are calls for an "appropriate and proportionate" response. For example, expulsion of diplomats and oligarchs at least, sequestering their property and freezing their accounts.

Something like Trump did to Iran, for a whole lot less - for adhering to an Agreement.

Not necessarily military action.
Absolutley, I agree 100%. Trump may actually be forced to anyway and he should, but military action is out of the question.
 

Jack Walsh

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The point is that there are calls for military action. Which is absolute madness. But tell me this, what sanctions did the US receive when it killed soldiers?

Furthermore, in your analogy, the ref has already ignored the behaviour of one of the players and has done so for decades.
From whom?
 

owedtojoy

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The Mujahideen (Taliban), cultivated, armed and financed by the US state department to kill Russian soldiers. Whats good for the goose etc etc.
That is fine from the perspective of someone who hates America and can applaud dead Americans.

But from the point of view of someone who voted for Trump , it is not Making American Great Again. It is dragging American down.

For American servicemen putting their lives on the line, it means the enemy can kill them with impunity.

For the American voter, it is an uncomfortable reminder of Trump's toadying to Putin.

Trump is unfit to lead, unit for office. Sicne there is a war in Afghanistan, Trump is getting close to committing actual treason.
 


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