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Ryanair admits slot sell off plans, and expects our support!


YongHoi

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Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
666
Many critics of Ryanairs attempted takeover of Aer Lingus have been forecasting the negative consequences for Ireland if it goes ahead. one of the most important forecasts has been the likely sale of Aer Lingus' London Heathrow slots, which would deprive the nation of direct access to one of the most important hub airports in Europe.
This assertion has usually been met with derision or disbelief.

Well, Ryanair have finally come out and not just admitted this is their planned policy, but expect it to assuage all remaining objections to the takeover bid at EU level.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/1217/breaking10.html

It's the kind of bizarre logic that only an airline touting stand-up passenger 'seating' could seriously propose.

Ryanairs bid price of 1.30 per Aer Lingus share values the company at 700 M euro.
Aer Lingus has 24 slot pairs at LHR. These slot pairs are currently changing hands for 31 to 37 million euro each. Let's call it an average of 35M euro.
Ryanair now admits their plan to sell 20 of these slots to BA/Flybe.
Total return - 700M euro. Ryanair thus pays 700M for EI, and trousers 700M euro of EI assets the next day. So they effectively get EI for free. Including a further 1BN in cash reserves.

In return the Irish traveling public get the choice of Ryanair to secondary UK airports, and 3 years more of access to LHR with BA, after which they will withdraw, and that will be the end of regular scheduled flights from Ireland to LHR.
And this is presented as a 'remedy' to guarantee competition?
Is anyone really taken by this? Anyone in favour of it?

By the way, if you doubt BA's intention to shift after 3 years (or even less) consider the fact that at present BA is being criticized for its lack of connectivity to China, the worlds fastest rising financial superpower.
Can you imagine BA sitting on its hands, pottering A320's between London and Dublin (a broke economy) when the very same slots could be used to send their brand new A380's to a bunch of booming cities in China?
Certainly not. The British Government would certainly have something to say about it.
http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/british-airways-considers-secondary-chinese-cities-possible-codeshare-with-china-southern-80649

This is the reality of the outcome of a Ryanair takeover. Now you see it. The only way off this island in 2016 may be the boat - or a monopoly Ryanair service to a second rate airport somewhere in Europe.
Just another retrograde step on the path to isolation and permanent stagnation of Irelands economy.
 
Last edited:
D

Dylan2010

I love the hyperobole, you should have got a famine reference in for good measure!
 

VHF

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Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
2,963
Just fly Cityjet into London City airport. Right in heart of London, hop on DLR to Canning Town, grab Tube. All within minutes of landing.
 

Boy M5

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Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
21,731
This would drag us further in to economic dark ages. It would severley weaken our international competitiveness, our tourism, our export industries and our family links.

Sums up O'Leary's mé féinism approach.
He gets a monopoly everyone else gets screwed (if anyone is deluded enough to believe that BA would deploy those slots anywhere but Ireland in 3 or 5 years time, they are severly deluded; FlyBe given its relative weakness to Ryanair is entering a Faustian pact).
I'm sure O'Leary is descended from a line of (very astute) gombeen men.

I notice his usual media boosters have been keeping quiet or were shocked - which shows how pee poor financial journalism is in our country. Its all boosting who ever has power or the coming man not using basic journalistic skills and actually understanding how business actually works.
 

Boy M5

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21,731
Just fly Cityjet into London City airport. Right in heart of London, hop on DLR to Canning Town, grab Tube. All within minutes of landing.
Except not everyone lives within the M50, the capacity on the smaller aircraft to LCY is way less than on Aer Lingus aircraft.

Most critically of all Heathrow is the global hub for passenger interchange that's why its critical to our connectivity.by the time you've gone from LCY( or Stansted) you would be in your destination if you'd simply changed flights at Heathrow.
 

Boy M5

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Yonghoi superlative post by the way.
 

dizillusioned

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Jan 19, 2011
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14,869
As someone who uses Aer Lngus quite a bit having O'Leary win this bid would be a disaster for me and also the economy as a whole IMO.

Not only would the Heathrow connectivity be affected, leading to much more difficult travel (affecting business) it would also affect tourism. no one wants connecting flights through regional airports to get to the main destination.

With Heathrow gone, I am sure he would also destroy the transatlantic slots too, with Aer Lingus already having stopped LA (a mistake IMO), I am sure Chicago and New York would also be affected. New York would definately see the loss of one slot, I can see Chicago being cortailed. Without American easy access you can be sure that FDI would be impacted.

This is a very dangerous situation, one I am sure O'Leary is only happy to exploit and make money out of.
 

Gurdiev

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Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
7,239
The prospect of Air Transport on and off the Island of Ireland being almost totally controlled by Michael o Leary is perilous .
Air transport is the life blood of the island , and it would be sheer madness to put it in the hands of one company.

The Heathrow routes are are vital for business and as popular as ever.
heathrow is 30 mins from Central London, other airports are one and a half hours.

RYanair provide a clever ,no frills airline. It is competitive up to a point. however.
Many of it fares between Dublin and London are the highest price per mile of any route in Europe.

Ryanair treats its customers with complete contempt, which is a shoddy way to do business.

IS THERE A PETITION THE PUBLIC CAN SIGN ABOUT THIS.?
 

Eire1976

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Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
14,190
I love the hyperobole, you should have got a famine reference in for good measure!
What a non thinking ****************************** you are for writing that Dylan.

Good on you Yonghoi for having some intellectual partiotism. It's time we had a lot more of this instead of money grabbing.
 

dancl2000

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
517
Many critics of Ryanairs attempted takeover of Aer Lingus have been forecasting the negative consequences for Ireland if it goes ahead. one of the most important forecasts has been the likely sale of Aer Lingus' London Heathrow slots, which would deprive the nation of direct access to one of the most important hub airports in Europe.
This assertion has usually been met with derision or disbelief.

Well, Ryanair have finally come out and not just admitted this is their planned policy, but expect it to assuage all remaining objections to the takeover bid at EU level.
Aer Lingus dips on Heathrow fears - The Irish Times - Mon, Dec 17, 2012

It's the kind of bizarre logic that only an airline touting stand-up passenger 'seating' could seriously propose.

Ryanairs bid price of 1.30 per Aer Lingus share values the company at 700 M euro.
Aer Lingus has 24 slot pairs at LHR. These slot pairs are currently changing hands for 31 to 37 million euro each. Let's call it an average of 35M euro.
Ryanair now admits their plan to sell 20 of these slots to BA/Flybe.
Total return - 700M euro. Ryanair thus pays 700M for EI, and trousers 700M euro of EI assets the next day. So they effectively get EI for free. Including a further 1BN in cash reserves.

In return the Irish traveling public get the choice of Ryanair to secondary UK airports, and 3 years more of access to LHR with BA, after which they will withdraw, and that will be the end of regular scheduled flights from Ireland to LHR.
And this is presented as a 'remedy' to guarantee competition?
Is anyone really taken by this? Anyone in favour of it?

By the way, if you doubt BA's intention to shift after 3 years (or even less) consider the fact that at present BA is being criticized for its lack of connectivity to China, the worlds fastest rising financial superpower.
Can you imagine BA sitting on its hands, pottering A320's between London and Dublin (a broke economy) when the very same slots could be used to send their brand new A380's to a bunch of booming cities in China?
Certainly not. The British Government would certainly have something to say about it.
British Airways considers secondary Chinese cities, possible codeshare with China Southern | CAPA - Centre for Aviation

This is the reality of the outcome of a Ryanair takeover. Now you see it. The only way off this island in 2016 may be the boat - or a monopoly Ryanair service to a second rate airport somewhere in Europe.
Just another retrograde step on the path to isolation and permanent stagnation of Irelands economy.
aerlingus does around 10 flights a day to heathrow right ? 20-24 slots and 10 flights a day doesnt seem right..

but yes, it's neither strategically good for ireland nor a good thing for passengers if ryanair buy aerlingus. ryanair probably wants aerlingus for the long haul brand name and sees the ryanair brand handling intra-european flights. so anyone using aerlingus on intra-european routes is going to get shafted

the problem with aerlingus is it's not that profitable, whether it's ryanair or someone else, the math is clear; it makes sense to buy aerlingus and break it up. unless the mgmt and unions find ways to increase profitability sooner or later the chickens will come home to roost. the strategic benefit to ireland is clear, but how can we protect aerlingus on that basis given the rules on state investment ?

the govt owns around 30 % of aerlingus ? hopefully between that and private shareholders who would not sell their aerlingus shares to buy the company some time
 

Howya

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Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
1,690
Just fly Cityjet into London City airport. Right in heart of London, hop on DLR to Canning Town, grab Tube. All within minutes of landing.
That's fine if London is your end destination (and yes London City has connections to other European cities) but there are no long haul flights to mid-east, Asia.
 

Gurdiev

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Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
7,239
I think this is being considered by the european monopolies committee. I trust they can see how dangerouscthe situarion is for an island economy. There must be a way that the public can be heard on this.

Does any know how?
I have signed online petitions in the past, but I don't know how to start one .
 

Howya

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
1,690
As someone who uses Aer Lngus quite a bit having O'Leary win this bid would be a disaster for me and also the economy as a whole IMO.

Not only would the Heathrow connectivity be affected, leading to much more difficult travel (affecting business) it would also affect tourism. no one wants connecting flights through regional airports to get to the main destination.

With Heathrow gone, I am sure he would also destroy the transatlantic slots too, with Aer Lingus already having stopped LA (a mistake IMO), I am sure Chicago and New York would also be affected. New York would definately see the loss of one slot, I can see Chicago being cortailed. Without American easy access you can be sure that FDI would be impacted.

This is a very dangerous situation, one I am sure O'Leary is only happy to exploit and make money out of.
There were some rumors that Ryanair was looking into starting long haul cheap flights - maybe that's his plan for Aer Lingus ?
 

Howya

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Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
1,690
What still astounds me is that the government didn't hold onto the Heathrow slots when floating Aer Lingus a number of years back. For an island nation, this connectivity is a vital infrastructural link.
 

DuineEile

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Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
14,939
aerlingus does around 10 flights a day to heathrow right ? 20-24 slots and 10 flights a day doesnt seem right..

but yes, it's neither strategically good for ireland nor a good thing for passengers if ryanair buy aerlingus. ryanair probably wants aerlingus for the long haul brand name and sees the ryanair brand handling intra-european flights. so anyone using aerlingus on intra-european routes is going to get shafted

the problem with aerlingus is it's not that profitable, whether it's ryanair or someone else, the math is clear; it makes sense to buy aerlingus and break it up. unless the mgmt and unions find ways to increase profitability sooner or later the chickens will come home to roost. the strategic benefit to ireland is clear, but how can we protect aerlingus on that basis given the rules on state investment ?

the govt owns around 30 % of aerlingus ? hopefully between that and private shareholders who would not sell their aerlingus shares to buy the company some time

So maybe we need a state airline as private enterprise can't be trusted? Oh no. You're all turning socialist.


D
 

VHF

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Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
2,963
Yes, Heathrow is a major hub. So too is Manchester with connections to many far reaching destinations. Less congested too! It is somewhat if a partial alternative, No?
 

Eire1976

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Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
14,190
I think this is being considered by the european monopolies committee. I trust they can see how dangerouscthe situarion is for an island economy. There must be a way that the public can be heard on this.

Does any know how?
I have signed online petitions in the past, but I don't know how to start one .
Don't be too surprised if they pay those in the decision making process in some way to get things going their way.
 

DownTheyGo

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Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
5,314
I can see where O'Leary is coming from and the logic behind a medium to long term game plan, certainly from Ryan Air's perspective. I strongly question the soundness for some of this logic.
 

Eire1976

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Joined
Nov 20, 2010
Messages
14,190
Yes, Heathrow is a major hub. So too is Manchester with connections to many far reaching destinations. Less congested too! It is somewhat if a partial alternative, No?
Why so pro O'Leary's plans, do you not see the disadvantage to the nation of losing Heathrow slots?
 

Boy M5

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Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
21,731
aerlingus does around 10 flights a day to heathrow right ? 20-24 slots and 10 flights a day doesnt seem right..

but yes, it's neither strategically good for ireland nor a good thing for passengers if ryanair buy aerlingus. ryanair probably wants aerlingus for the long haul brand name and sees the ryanair brand handling intra-european flights. so anyone using aerlingus on intra-european routes is going to get shafted
the problem with aerlingus is it's not that profitable, whether it's ryanair or someone else, the math is clear; it makes sense to buy aerlingus and break it up. unless the mgmt and unions find ways to increase profitability sooner or later the chickens will come home to roost. the strategic benefit to ireland is clear, but how can we protect aerlingus on that basis given the rules on state investment ?

the govt owns around 30 % of aerlingus ? hopefully between that and private shareholders who would not sell their aerlingus shares to buy the company some time
Agreed except that Aer Lingus is one of the few profitable airlines in Europe. On a consistent basis. I suspect you already know but Google Air France (a better soap opera than Carrickstown) LOT has just been given money by Poland, Those who would break it up or buy the slots from the "activist" shareholder are subsidised, state owned or would use the slots to feed traffic into their networks in the home country. In short its Shamrock Rovers versus Man City ( the latter is endowed with such wealth that it has an unfair competitive
advantage).

Which makes Vlad's idea of selling off the state's stake absolutely ludicrous.
 
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