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Ryanair's real reason for backing Lisbon


Ultan Murphy

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May 9, 2007
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128
We have received assurances from the Referendum Commission and the Government that Ireland will not lose control over taxation policy if we vote yes to the Lisbon Treaty. I cannot see how they can keep making that claim.

Unbeknownst to many and especially the farming community, an economic straitjacket is being lined up at an EU level to prevent any prospect of many businesses expanding. It is in the context of dealing with the environment, where the problem lies and the small farmer especially, should oppose this treaty with every bone in his or her body.
Article 191 in the Treaty states that:
Union policy on the environment shall contribute to pursuit of the following objectives:
• “Promoting measures at international level to deal with regional or worldwide environmental
problems, and in particular combating climate change”
• “Damage should as a priority be rectified at source and that the polluter should pay”
Article 192 states that action to achieve the objectives set out in Article 191, the Union, “shall adopt provisions primarily of a fiscal nature.”
“Provisions of a fiscal nature” in any language, means legally binding Carbon Taxes.
Farmers who think they are going to escape from the provisions set out above are very much misguided. The Treaty explicitly states that the polluter should pay, and that means the farmer. Methane emissions from cattle account for 27% of all of Irelands Carbon output. Therefore it will illegal, technically, for haulage companies and motorists to exclusively bear the brunt of any imposed Carbon Tax agreed at an EU level.

The Green Party and Fianna Fail under the guidance of Foreign Affairs Minister, Micheal Martin, think that the section of the Lisbon Treaty mandating Carbon Taxes is somehow of benefit to the population of Ireland. Of course Labour and Fine Gael also support this taxation system and the Environmental Protection Agency will be the authorised body to supervise the madness.

What is likely to happen in the coming years is that an EU Emissions Trading Scheme will be applied to the farming community in the same way it is has already been applied to the Power firms. It will also apply to the Airline industry after 2013. Ryanair, for example, will profit more with their aircraft on the ground because smaller airlines wishing to expand their routes will need to purchase Carbon Credits from the major carriers like Ryanair. It is no surprise, therefore, to see Ryanair spending €500,000 to support a yes vote. Ryanair will profit to the tune of Billions of Euro just like the Power companies already have on the back of this corrupt and fraudulent Carbon trading scheme.

The Referendum Commission’s legal position on this proxy taxation system is that,
“The European Council has stated that nothing in the Lisbon Treaty makes any change of any kind for any member state in relation to the powers of the EU in respect of taxation.”
Who do the Referendum Commission and European Council think they are kidding? Powers of the EU in relation to taxation must change in the Lisbon Treaty in the context of dealing with “Climate Change”, otherwise it wouldn’t be possible for Ministers Martin and Gormley to cite Climate Change as one of the main reasons to vote yes.

By the week, more and more hard scientific evidence is coming out proving that cloud formation is affected within days of changes on the surface of the Sun. Global temperatures have actually fallen since 1998 but the EU and the vested interests will have none of that. There is potentially trillions of euro to be made on Carbon Trading where the big corporations will win and you will lose. Vote No for your own sake.


See following Quote from John Gormley

Whatever you might say for or against the Lisbon Treaty, one thing is clear: it cements and strengthens an EU-wide commitment on climate change. As Environment Minister John Gormley put it earlier today: “Article 191.1 of the Lisbon Treaty’s Title XX contains a key provision which has a direct effect on combating climate change. It commits the EU to dealing with climate change regionally and on a worldwide basis. I believe it will also act as a legal guarantee which will ensure all member states honour their commitment to the fight against the effects of climate change.
“Critics have dismissed this Lisbon Treaty provision as tokenism but it is quite the opposite. It represents the first time the EU has put into its rule book the need to take concerted action against climate change.”

How can one say that Lisbon, on the one hand, will have no say over any members states Taxation policy, and on the other hand say it guarantees something legally which involves provisions on a fiscal nature which are Carbon Taxes?
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
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22,911
Carbon taxes after 2013 ain't gonna happen as Industry realise the nature of the scam to tax the hell out of them to justify the Pseudo Science of Climate Change.

Still waiting for those CC guys to tell me what Climate they want.
 

TommyO'Brien

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Jan 14, 2009
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Oh great. This red herring reappears. Plus ca change.
 

goosebump

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May 23, 2008
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WTF has any of this got to do with Ryanair?

Will you be petitioning the High Court to have Michael O'Leary produce his birth cert?

Was Michael O'Leary in WTC Building 7 10 minutes before it collapsed?

Is Michael O'Leary secretly married to a lizard?
 

Ultan Murphy

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Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
128
The EPA website is a mine of information.

Emissions Trading Scheme - Aviation - Environmental Protection Agency, Ireland

The Aviation Directive (Directive 2008/101/EC of 19 November 2008 amending Directive 2003/87/EC so as to include aviation activities in the scheme for greenhouse gas emission allowance trading within the Community) came into force on 2 February 2009. The Irish EPA has been appointed the Competent Authority (Regulator) for the implementation of the Directive in Ireland.

The Aviation Directive requires all (EU and non-EU) operators of fixed or rotary-wing aircraft over 5,700 kg (12,566 pounds) who fly to, from or within EU countries to participate in the EU Emissions Trading Scheme starting in 2012 (however other compliance requirements, explained in greater detail below, commence in 2009). There is an exemption for commercial aircraft operations which have fewer than 243 flights per period for three consecutive four-month periods or with total annual emissions from all eligible flights lower than 10,000 tonnes (metric tons) per year.
 

goosebump

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May 23, 2008
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How can one say that Lisbon, on the one hand, will have no say over any members states Taxation policy, and on the other hand say it guarantees something legally which involves provisions on a fiscal nature which are Carbon Taxes?
And just to tidy this up, 'fiscal' in this context means 'trading' not taxation, given that the EU has no competence in this area.

If you don't think CC is an issue, and you don't want want anybody to do anything about, you should vote No, because Lisbon is probably the most important legal document in relation to Climate Change that has been produced to date.
 

The Field Marshal

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Aug 27, 2009
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Ryanair are acting purely from self interest.

Their bona fides on matters political cannot be trusted
 

Ultan Murphy

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May 9, 2007
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128
WTF has any of this got to do with Ryanair?

Will you be petitioning the High Court to have Michael O'Leary produce his birth cert?

Was Michael O'Leary in WTC Building 7 10 minutes before it collapsed?

Is Michael O'Leary secretly married to a lizard?

OK, Ml O'Leary is investing €500,000 of corporate money on supporting Lisbon. He expects Ryanair is going to get a return on investment and so would I.

I'm sure this has all been discussed at a boardroom level and a pretty good reason will have to be given to the board. I have not seen anywhere in the media any thesis why Ml O'Leary would change it's tune from Oct 2008 to June 2009. Something of a "fiscal nature" happened in between.

I am a fan of Ryanair for many different reasons. Also Ml O'Leary is a Climate Change denier. Money however talks and BS walks.
 

fiannafailure

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May 16, 2009
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I would be interested to see the legal argument which can include methane production from cattle as a carbon emission. Can anyone point me in this direction.

I would suggest that if such an instrument exists, then the Lisbon treaty will have little impact on its implementation.

I ask purely from a commercial perspective, as I have pointed out previously, Ireland will be in a great position to turn carbon taxes to our advantage.
 

kerdasi amaq

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Aug 24, 2009
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It's not really in Michael O'Leary's best interest to see the Lisbon Treaty passed, as it will the EU a whole host of powers over his company, which they will not use in a way to benefit Ryanair. A capitalist will sell you the rope to hang him with; and that is what MOL is doing by supporting the Lisbon Treaty.

Ireland's emissions limits should be five times greater(for historical reasons) than they are, but our incompetent politicians are too stupid (or self-interested) to understand why.

Fortunately for the "Good Europeans", the Irish People are financial masochists(a legacy of rack-renting), and will happily vote YES to pay through the nose for "carbon taxes".
 

kerrynorth

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Oct 5, 2005
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Michael needs for the EU to expand as he is already running out of options where to locate the hundreds of aircraft he has ordered from Boeing.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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I would be interested to see the legal argument which can include methane production from cattle as a carbon emission. Can anyone point me in this direction.

I would suggest that if such an instrument exists, then the Lisbon treaty will have little impact on its implementation.

I ask purely from a commercial perspective, as I have pointed out previously, Ireland will be in a great position to turn carbon taxes to our advantage.
The cows are not at fault for our huge production of Methane. Dail Eireann is.
BTW The Evil Union's Emission Trading Scheme is a complete scam.
 

fiannafailure

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2,069
It's not really in Michael O'Leary's best interest to see the Lisbon Treaty passed, as it will the EU a whole host of powers over his company, which they will not use in a way to benefit Ryanair. A capitalist will sell you the rope to hang him with; and that is what MOL is doing by supporting the Lisbon Treaty.

Ireland's emissions limits should be five times greater(for historical reasons) than they are, but our incompetent politicians are too stupid (or self-interested) to understand why.

Fortunately for the "Good Europeans", the Irish People are financial masochists(a legacy of rack-renting), and will happily vote YES to pay through the nose for "carbon taxes".
Whatever about our history, Spirit of Ireland will ensure that Ireland will be a net benificiary of those carbon taxes, bring them on.
Carbon taxes can only be levied on processes that increase atmospheric carbon carbon. There are two ways of getting your hands on carbon credits, the official way from the bureuacracy or from someone who actively reduces CO2 in the atmosphere, the new rich.
 

fiannafailure

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A lot of people look at me funny when I express my views on carbon taxes, I usually manage to restore their good looks by showing them the amount of money the EU has in its budget to spend on projects that take CO2 out of the atmosphere.
In fact I am gaining a reputation as a beautician, such is the improvement in peoples looks.

For carbon capture alone the budget for 2010 is over a billion euro, with the only real barrier to drawing funds down being, only one project can be supported per country.

Of course if a country does not have a project, it cannot be supported, Mary Coughlan are you paying attention. There are a few unemployed fishermen in your constituency that might benefit here, have you told them yet.
 
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seabhcan

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Sep 3, 2007
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14,327
Ryanair owes its existence to the EU. In the 90s the EU deregulated the airline industry - before, an Irish airline could only fly passengers between Ireland and some foreign city for a set ticket price negotiated between government - after an Irish airline can fly between any two airports in the EU for any price they wish.

Were Irelands position in the EU to be put under threat, that would threaten Ryanair. I think their motivation for supporting Lisbon is very clear. Even if Ireland cannot be forced out of the EU, we can certainly be excluded from future developments (as the no side wish) and that could harm Ryanair.
 

fiannafailure

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May 16, 2009
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Ryanair owes its existence to the EU. In the 90s the EU deregulated the airline industry - before, an Irish airline could only fly passengers between Ireland and some foreign city for a set ticket price negotiated between government - after an Irish airline can fly between any two airports in the EU for any price they wish.

Were Irelands position in the EU to be put under threat, that would threaten Ryanair. I think their motivation for supporting Lisbon is very clear. Even if Ireland cannot be forced out of the EU, we can certainly be excluded from future developments (as the no side wish) and that could harm Ryanair.
I an rapidly coming to the conclusion that people who advocate a no vote, would also have a view that Ireland should return to the, Cailin's dancing at the crossroads, vision of Ireland.
 
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