Sacrifice's of a minimum wage individual V individual on 120000 euros

[pjoz]

Given what has emerged from the IMF papers and the less than reassuring words of the government parties I see little protection for a minimum wage individual from having a cut in pay enforced.

Lets compare what this budget proposes the above two individuals should further contribute

Minimum wage: Cut by 1 euro x 40 hr week = 40 x 52 weeks = 2080

Individual on 120000: Figures obtained from
Budget Calculator 2011 · TheJournal.ie is expected to contribute 2031

I find this shocking. There is no semblence of a progressive system on display here.I echo Pearse Doherty's call to the voters to reward any TD who backs this budget by kicking them out of office when they go to the polls

 

[He3]

Are you overlooking the high earner's actual payments to the State in 2011 as per that Calculator?

-€39,012 income tax
-€4,536 PRSI
-€7,719 USC

 

[pjoz]

I'm looking at in the full year a person on the minimum wage is expected to contribute a further 2080 while a person on 120000 is expected to contribute only a further 2031

 

[Decko]

site doesnt take fully into account all the tax changes

 

[He3]

Yes understood pjoz, but it is a partial look all the same imho.

 

[pjoz]

Look, I know its not a completely accurate set of figures,but it does give a broad idea of how the burden will fall given the comparison outlined. The broad figures, whatever way people will attempt to dress them up make very stark reading.

Haven't any of the charts to hand that rte used on news but proportionally it seemed to me that in all scenario's they outlined that those on lower income paid proportionally more than those on higher. Just from memory I'm talking about the contrast highlighted between those on 50000 and 100000.

 

[pjoz]

With regard to my OP I have ommitted to mention the 4% universal social charge to be levied on the minimum wage individual

 

[irish_bob]

paul sommerville was on vincent brownes budget special today and made some valid points regarding the reduced minimum wage

saying that he would have left the reduction untill way down the line but that the rate itself is less important than the purchasing power 7.60 allows you , sommerville claimed that the sheltered sections of the economy like ESB , GP,s , dentists etc need to be brought into the real free market , this will soften the fall for people on minimum wage , have to say , i fully agree with him , i worked abroad when i was in my early twenties in new zealand , the pay was on paper very low but a dollar got you much further than here , untill every sector of this economy is exposed to the cold winds of the market and the rescession , thier can be no real equity in cuts

 

[Barnacle]

With regard to my OP I have ommitted to mention the 4% universal social charge to be levied on the minimum wage individual

For someone earning just the minimum wage for 40 hours, the Universal Social Charge would be about 2.7%.

For someone on Minimum Wage now, they will suffer a €41pw (€2,160 p.a.) reduction in take home pay if their wage is reduced.

 

[Fides]

Look, I know its not a completely accurate set of figures,but it does give a broad idea of how the burden will fall given the comparison outlined. The broad figures, whatever way people will attempt to dress them up make very stark reading.

Haven't any of the charts to hand that rte used on news but proportionally it seemed to me that in all scenario's they outlined that those on lower income paid proportionally more than those on higher. Just from memory I'm talking about the contrast highlighted between those on 50000 and 100000.

I also saw a family with 2 children 0n 30k is only down Eur99.
But yes those on minimum wage will be hardest hit if employers cut their pay. I don't see that happening in most cases but new entrants will get paid less.

 

[Skin]

Given what has emerged from the IMF papers and the less than reassuring words of the government parties I see little protection for a minimum wage individual from having a cut in pay enforced.

Lets compare what this budget proposes the above two individuals should further contribute

Minimum wage: Cut by 1 euro x 40 hr week = 40 x 52 weeks = 2080

Individual on 120000: Figures obtained from
Budget Calculator 2011 · TheJournal.ie is expected to contribute 2031

I find this shocking. There is no semblence of a progressive system on display here.I echo Pearse Doherty's call to the voters to reward any TD who backs this budget by kicking them out of office when they go to the polls

Firstly, just because NMW is reduced to €7.65 does not mean that anyone on €8.65 today will be docked €1 ph tomorrow. The €7.65 rate is simply the legal minimum rate. The Government is not the employer and cannot dictate to private enterprise what rate to pay.
If I am on €8.65ph today, it should be written into my terms and conditions. It is an agreement between me and the employer and no-one else. I will still be on €8.65 ph tomorrow.

Having said that, new entrants to the workforce or those returning could be faced with an offer of €7.65, which is lousy, considering the other points you have made.

 

[womblewilly]

Bear in mind that everyone will pay more tax. Not everyone on the minimum wage will have their wages cut. It's more likely to be the new hires in certain industries who will come in at a lower wage.

 

[pjoz]

Firstly, just because NMW is reduced to €7.65 does not mean that anyone on €8.65 today will be docked €1 ph tomorrow. The €7.65 rate is simply the legal minimum rate. The Government is not the employer and cannot dictate to private enterprise what rate to pay.
If I am on €8.65ph today, it should be written into my terms and conditions. It is an agreement between me and the employer and no-one else. I will still be on €8.65 ph tomorrow.

Having said that, new entrants to the workforce or those returning could be faced with an offer of €7.65, which is lousy, considering the other points you have made.

Lenihan on primetime advanced that argument.Noonan cut him to shreds. I suggest you have a read of the IMF document. It actually makes provision for inflicting more cuts to the minimum wage

 

[Odyessus]

Given what has emerged from the IMF papers and the less than reassuring words of the government parties I see little protection for a minimum wage individual from having a cut in pay enforced.

Lets compare what this budget proposes the above two individuals should further contribute

Minimum wage: Cut by 1 euro x 40 hr week = 40 x 52 weeks = 2080

Individual on 120000: Figures obtained from
Budget Calculator 2011 · TheJournal.ie is expected to contribute 2031

I find this shocking. There is no semblence of a progressive system on display here.I echo Pearse Doherty's call to the voters to reward any TD who backs this budget by kicking them out of office when they go to the polls

The reduction in the minimum wage has nothing to do with the budget. It neither raises revenue for the state nor does it increase expenditure.

It merely allows employers to legally offer employment to people at €7.65 per hour.


P.S. People being presently paid €8.65 per hour have the same legal protection from having their pay reduced as had people being paid €10 per hour when the minimum wage was €8.65.

 

[pjoz]

Your not in the real world my friend if you believe the tripe you just wrote. That argument doesn't stand up.

 

[Grizzly Man]

Your calculations take no account of the reduction in pension relief and other sundries. Make the high earner more 'typical' - married, 2 kids, putting 25% into a pension - and their net loss doubles.

 

[mathie]

The minimum wage needs to be reduced further.
We are still not even close to being competitive compared to our EU neighbours.
Social welfare should have been reduced by a greater percentage than the percentage that the minimum wage was reduced by.

 

[Casillas]

The minimum wage needs to be reduced further.
We are still not even close to being competitive compared to our EU neighbours.
Social welfare should have been reduced by a greater percentage than the percentage that the minimum wage was reduced by.

Yes and we'll all survive on tree-bark and nettles, idiot.

 

[iartaoiseach]

The minimum wage needs to be reduced further.
We are still not even close to being competitive compared to our EU neighbours.
Social welfare should have been reduced by a greater percentage than the percentage that the minimum wage was reduced by.

Have you lot in IBEC nothing better to do FFS?

 

[Odyessus]

Your not in the real world my friend if you believe the tripe you just wrote. That argument doesn't stand up.

It is still standing until you knock it down. "It is tripe" is not an argument.