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Sam Smyth on FG

jetttxyz

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The article below is by Sam Smyth in Monday 23rd June's Indo.
One thing has me thinking: the article has a lot of similarities, to the contents, posted on P.ie

Coincidence, are we all thinking alike.....or what?

By Sam Smyth
Monday June 23 2008

THE mood among Fine Gael lifers is somewhere between muffled desperation and quiet resignation.
Another drop in another opinion poll and further speculation about the leadership offers no hope to supporters. And, more ominously, it gives succour to their enemies.
A three-point drop to 25pc, the fourth decline in support in as many months in yesterday's "Sunday Business Post", confirmed their decline in "The Irish Times" poll ten days ago.
Nor is there a white knight waiting in the wings to lead the party out of Opposition and into Government Buildings. And, to add to their despair, there is no realistic prospect of Enda Kenny and Fine Gael triumphing at next year's mid-term test for the government.
Fine Gael insiders acknowledge they will have difficulty retaining their five seats in the European Parliament. And because Fianna Fail did so badly in the last local elections, Fine Gael cannot expect to show them up in next year's.
Most political parties would take a long hard look at a leader who offered them no serious hope of achieving office. But there is no mood for a change even among the gloomiest Fine Gaelers.
Five leaders in 15 years only added suspicion and rancour to disappointment, according to one veteran, who added: "And no one is convinced that any candidate on offer would do any better than Enda."
Depress
And that will further depress party supporters who will see that fatalism as defeatism and only add to the perception of Fianna Fail as the natural leader of future Irish governments.
It is also bad news for a robust democracy where a vibrant Opposition should offer an alternative to an incompetent and tired government in its third term.
Yet Fianna Fail retains its 40pc standing in yesterday's poll, confirmation that the electorate will not punish the Government for losing the 'Yes' argument on the Lisbon Treaty.
The slogan on the wall of Bill Clinton's campaign headquarters in 1992 -- It's the economy, stupid-- will dominate public debate for the next couple of years.
And as the economy nosedives, unemployment soars, public services are cut and taxes are increased, it will offer an opportunity for the Opposition to show leadership.
Yet Enda Kenny has never appeared comfortable or even competent dealing with economic issues
According to one senior party figure, the polls will get worse and morale in the party will get lower in the months to come.
It is the second largest political organisation in the State and its leader the only possible successor as taoiseach, yet they offer no credible threat to the Government or Brian Cowen.
This lack of ambition in Fine Gael suggests their own party's well being is more important to them than the public interest. And the public interest demands that Fine Gael provide a competent Opposition.
What, the electorate will ask, is Fine Gael for and why is it not currently a realistic contender to lead the next government?
 


FutureTaoiseach

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Until FG stops collaborating with FF via the cosy-consensus on issues like the EU and immigration, it will remain a party not worth voting for, as it's just FF-lite on most issues.
 

dub006

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FutureTaoiseach said:
Until FG stops collaborating with FF via the cosy-consensus on issues like the EU and immigration, it will remain a party not worth voting for, as it's just FF-lite on most issues.
Immigration is critical .

If FG attacked this problem ,particularly the issue of illegals and the illegal IBC scheme they would sweep into office.
If they leave this overarching issue fester much longer another movement will emerge to tackle this nightmare and then it will be curtains for FG and for Labour.
 

The Collective.

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I didnt even read this. I dont get political advice from a tabloid.
 

KingKane

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jetttxyz said:
The article below is by Sam Smyth in Monday 23rd June's Indo.
One thing has me thinking: the article has a lot of similarities, to the contents, posted on P.ie

Coincidence, are we all thinking alike.....or what?

By Sam Smyth
Monday June 23 2008


Nor is there a white knight waiting in the wings to lead the party out of Opposition and into Government Buildings. And, to add to their despair, there is no realistic prospect of Enda Kenny and Fine Gael triumphing at next year's mid-term test for the government.
Fine Gael insiders acknowledge they will have difficulty retaining their five seats in the European Parliament. And because Fianna Fail did so badly in the last local elections, Fine Gael cannot expect to show them up in next year's.
I had read this on Monday and I love this particular piece where he tells us that FG "difficulty retaining their five seats", didn't people tell us that we were going to struggle mightily to hold our four seats last time? I thought that someone should really take Sam aside and explain the political lie of the land to him as it will roll out over the next 12 months. FF will be presiding over the worst budgetary situation that most people voting will be able to remember, they will (it would seem from the mood music right now) try to rerun the Lisbon Treaty in advance of those local and European elections after people had voted to reject it, and in circumstances where we will be told by the FF minister for Finance that cutbacks in the previous budget were necessary because the EU won't allow us to have more than a 3% deficit all the while people struggle with interest rates set by the ECB which will be most likely higher than now. And yet Sam thinks it is FG that will struggle?

I'm not taking the support FG will get for granted for one minute but it is FF that will be all kinds of trouble over the next 12 months. If you thought the FF logo was small on posters in 2004, it will be microscopic next year.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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FF will be presiding over the worst budgetary situation that most people voting will be able to remember, they will (it would seem from the mood music right now) try to rerun the Lisbon Treaty in advance of those local and European elections after people had voted to reject it, and in circumstances where we will be told by the FF minister for Finance that cutbacks in the previous budget were necessary because the EU won't allow us to have more than a 3% deficit all the while people struggle with interest rates set by the ECB which will be most likely higher than now. And yet Sam thinks it is FG that will struggle?
How can you expect to profit from the Lisbon rerun if your party is going to stand by Fianna Fáil a second time? It just makes you look just as out of touch as they are. :roll:
 

FutureTaoiseach

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peader odonnell said:
paddy power has FG/Labour as favourite to form the next goverment.
Yes just like they had the yes side 5-1 to win on June 12th.
 

KATHY

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This is the ‘award winning journalist’ Sam Smyth who first broke the story on Lowry. However a number of years later in a TV interview, when he was asked if he had known then of the knock on effect the Lowry story was to have on the fortunes of Charles Haughey would he have gone ahead with it. He said he would not as he was 'very fond of Charles Haughey'. So its absolutely clear where Smyth’s loyalties lie, and there is no doubt but he will continue to scrape the bottom of any barrel he can find to have a go at FG.
 

Catalpa

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Enda Kenny is truly a pathetic leader of the Opposition - it's hard to believe that in any other democracy he would last for long.

They really are FF Lite. :oops:

But if they want there is an issue just waoting for some Party to pick up and run with it and that is of course is Immigration.

Even a few subtle hints along the lines 'that maybe something ought to be done' would get FG votes in droves.
 

NotDevsSon

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KATHY said:
This is the ‘award winning journalist’ Sam Smyth who first broke the story on Lowry. However a number of years later in a TV interview, when he was asked if he had known then of the knock on effect the Lowry story was to have on the fortunes of Charles Haughey would he have gone ahead with it. He said he would not as he was 'very fond of Charles Haughey'. So its absolutely clear where Smyth’s loyalties lie, and there is no doubt but he will continue to scrape the bottom of any barrel he can find to have a go at FG.
There is an old joke that with certain journalists, if Fianna Fail are being criticised (as they are right now over the economy, Lisbon, etc) a mysterious article will be published attacking Fine Gael. If you look at old newspapers at a time when FF is being criticised, one of those articles always appears. I won't name the journalists in question but people who read certain newspapers will know the ones I mean. :lol:
 

Cogadh

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NotDevsSon said:
KATHY said:
This is the ‘award winning journalist’ Sam Smyth who first broke the story on Lowry. However a number of years later in a TV interview, when he was asked if he had known then of the knock on effect the Lowry story was to have on the fortunes of Charles Haughey would he have gone ahead with it. He said he would not as he was 'very fond of Charles Haughey'. So its absolutely clear where Smyth’s loyalties lie, and there is no doubt but he will continue to scrape the bottom of any barrel he can find to have a go at FG.
There is an old joke that with certain journalists, if Fianna Fail are being criticised (as they are right now over the economy, Lisbon, etc) a mysterious article will be published attacking Fine Gael. If you look at old newspapers at a time when FF is being criticised, one of those articles always appears. I won't name the journalists in question but people who read certain newspapers will know the ones I mean. :lol:
:shock: I thought conspiracy theories were the preserve of loopers and the like.
 

Blue Tide

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peader odonnell said:
very true ,fancy the return of this goverment at 13-2?
Sounds like extremely easy money with the way things are going. Fianna Fail can't seem to do anything wrong( in the eyes of the people that is), Fine Gael can't distinguish themselves from FF(in the eyes of the people) and fecking Enda is our leader are all seemingly insurmountable obstacles.
 

KingKane

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FutureTaoiseach said:
FF will be presiding over the worst budgetary situation that most people voting will be able to remember, they will (it would seem from the mood music right now) try to rerun the Lisbon Treaty in advance of those local and European elections after people had voted to reject it, and in circumstances where we will be told by the FF minister for Finance that cutbacks in the previous budget were necessary because the EU won't allow us to have more than a 3% deficit all the while people struggle with interest rates set by the ECB which will be most likely higher than now. And yet Sam thinks it is FG that will struggle?
How can you expect to profit from the Lisbon rerun if your party is going to stand by Fianna Fáil a second time? It just makes you look just as out of touch as they are. :roll:
I wasn't talking about FG profiting, I was merely pointing out that it is FF that are facing the bigger difficulties and yet we don't see any article from Sam Smyth about that.
 

droghedasouth

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Catalpa said:
Enda Kenny is truly a pathetic leader of the Opposition - it's hard to believe that in any other democracy he would last for long.

They really are FF Lite. :oops:

But if they want there is an issue just waoting for some Party to pick up and run with it and that is of course is Immigration.

Even a few subtle hints along the lines 'that maybe something ought to be done' would get FG votes in droves.
Why all this self-loathing claptrap about the nature of democracy in Ireland.

Be a patriot and love your country - sure we might even find a space for you in our big tent.
 

Edo

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jetttxyz said:
The article below is by Sam Smyth in Monday 23rd June's Indo.
One thing has me thinking: the article has a lot of similarities, to the contents, posted on P.ie

Coincidence, are we all thinking alike.....or what?

By Sam Smyth
Monday June 23 2008

THE mood among Fine Gael lifers is somewhere between muffled desperation and quiet resignation.
Another drop in another opinion poll and further speculation about the leadership offers no hope to supporters. And, more ominously, it gives succour to their enemies.
.....................................................................................................................................................................................................
What, the electorate will ask, is Fine Gael for and why is it not currently a realistic contender to lead the next government?
Meh - its a fair point and the Sunday Tribune made the same at the Weekend.

Im a fully paid and active member of FG - but as most know here Im not too precious at defending the Party at all costs - if its a legitimate point ,which the above is, then fair enough and the party should be listening.

For a start - Regardless of the opinion polls - all the parties who supported Lisbon will need to do a serious degree of hard thinking this summer and none of them should take any comfort from appearing to have dodged a bullet or not. The Lisbon referendum, like all referendums where the contents were not something as clearcut as Divorce or abortion or over other deeply personal moral issue - was a "state of the nation" poll - which means in our case , the economic conditions and how much faith the electorate has in the Dail to deal with this and their management of public services - and the answer was a resounding 2 fingers - Europe, the EU and the actual contents of the Lisbon treaty were actually of little import at the end of the day -much more important was sending a message to the Dail over how they were feeling about the running of the country.

Whither Fine Gael?

Well - this moment was coming and recent events have probably fast forwarded it big time - given the local and Euro elections next year - its Fine Gaels "Shite or get off the pot" moment. The problem is the message , not the personnel, at the moment. Until FG decide what that message is actually composed of, give all the spinners and pollsters their P45 in Hq - decide to provide opposition with a degree of consistency in line with the "message" as opposed to blaming and shouting at the government for everything from Irelands failure to qualify for Euro 2008 to the crap weather we had today, Until that message is decided in line and in agreement with the full membership so everybody is playing off the same hymnsheet, until the membership itself wakes up to the fact that its 2008 not 1958 we are living in now and decides to pull back the curtains and let a little new blood, new ideas and a more diverse membership in the door that might actually reflect the diverse and complex society we live in today - Then the future is bleak - Fine Gael's "core vote" (who will vote FG come hell or high water in National elections) is probably closer to 15% than 25% and is dwindling and dying off and becoming more conservative,incestous and exclusive - the party will surely decline into irrelevance in the future , kind of like the Catholic Church which is following the same trajectory - if as appears likely they fail to make Government at the next election.

The Political Landscape is changing - the Lisbon result was a dramatic expression of this - whatever the consequences or not of the result and our relationship with Europe - the biggest deal was that the electorate has shown its power and none of the establishment parties should take their vote for granted. With the economy in interesting times and even when it recovers - there will be no return to the boom days and the orgy of buying off whoever opposed you. The old bonds are perishing between the electorate and the 2 and half party political mainstream - I have a feeling ( and I had a feeling about Lisbon 2 months before the result) that next years local elections are going to be very interesting and both FF , FG and Lab could be in for serious hi-jacking come next June.

The political party or movement that cops this on first and manages to ride this wave could sweep to power - the electorate are looking for 4 things now - they've seen thru the bull - 1) a consistent message and vision and it must be positive - people vote for governments not against them 2) blunt honesty about the circumstances facing us and keep the spin to the minimum - the people have enough3) a willingness to go out and knock on everydoor in the country and listen, listen,listen and 4) outline a plan of clear measurable objectives that do not conflict with the vision and drive that message home again and again ,so much that canvassers will be able to recite it like 2nd class maths tables when they are asked.

Yep Fine Gael are back at that moment again -last years election was a high watermark in the "We're not Fianna Fail" strategy - a strategy that will have to go in the Bin - Yes , we will benefit from the current administrations current discomfort - but unless we have a real imaginative new deal to put in front of the electorate - then we are pissing against the wind - Leadership changes are irrelevant - the whole party and organisation must get out of its comfort zone and banging on about its past and what we did aeons ago and start to take real risks and start to tell the people what we are going do for them in the future and what our vision of the future in 10-15-20 years is and its about telling it on a grassroots,door to door level - nobody apart from the anoraks here ,gives a monkeys about the punch and judy show in Leinster house.

Fortune favours the Brave - Libertas have proved this on Lisbon - Will Fine Gael face up to this moment of destiny or not? - there is an opportunity now - but the door will quickly close if not taken.
 

DJP

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THE mood among Fine Gael lifers is somewhere between muffled desperation and quiet resignation.
Another drop in another opinion poll and further speculation about the leadership offers no hope to supporters. And, more ominously, it gives succour to their enemies.
FG members are either extremely thick skinned with Enda Kenny as their leader of they are living in their own little fantasy world where "everything is OK really", or both.
 

Estragon

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dub006 said:
FutureTaoiseach said:
Until FG stops collaborating with FF via the cosy-consensus on issues like the EU and immigration, it will remain a party not worth voting for, as it's just FF-lite on most issues.
Immigration is critical .

If FG attacked this problem ,particularly the issue of illegals and the illegal IBC scheme they would sweep into office.
If they leave this overarching issue fester much longer another movement will emerge to tackle this nightmare and then it will be curtains for FG and for Labour.
Neither I nor a single sinner I know gives one single solitary shite about immigration.
 

Edo

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Darren Mac an Phríora said:
Edo said:
THE mood among Fine Gael lifers is somewhere between muffled desperation and quiet resignation.
Another drop in another opinion poll and further speculation about the leadership offers no hope to supporters. And, more ominously, it gives succour to their enemies.
FG members are either extremely thick skinned with Enda Kenny as their leader of they are living in their own little fantasy world where "everything is OK really", or both.
Actually I didn't write the above and would appreciate it if you could edit that and demonstrate some competence with the "quote function"! as you would have known if you had read the thread from the beginning.

Yeesh - talk about the need to spin.
 


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