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Saudis Ban Mosques & Arrest Muslims

JSLeFanu

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Fascinating isn't it that you can't even talk minarets and burkas on this Island without being branded a racist yet when the chips are down there's no greater disrespectors of Islam than, ahem, Muslims. Yup we're on Saudi Arabia time now and when those boys take a dislike to a mosque there's no beating around the bush.

Saudi Shias Arrested over Worship

RIYADH: Authorities in Sunni-dominated Saudi Arabia have arrested several Shia community leaders in the Eastern Province for hosting Shias worship services in their homes, an activist said Tuesday.

According to Ahlul Bayt News Agency (ABNA.ir), a 30-year old school teacher was detained on Monday in Al-Khobar, where three other Shias were arrested a week earlier for private services on the Ashura holiday last December, said Ibrahim Mugaiteeb of the Human Rights First Society.

The arrests follow more than a year of tensions in the Eastern Province over permits for new Shia mosques in the region.

Authorities have shut down several makeshift Shia mosques and refused a mosque permit for the 20,000-strong Al-Khobar Shia community, according to Mugaiteeb.

“They cannot have their own mosques, and they can’t pray in a Sunni mosque,” he told AFP. “They are not allowed to have prayers in the streets.”

He said that three of those arrested were from the same al-Maki family: Hassan Ali al-Maki, the teacher arrested Monday, Abdullah Fahad al-Maki, 73, and Hassan Ali al-Maki, 45.

The fourth man was Mahdi Ahmad al-Khodhair, 64, and all were arrested March 29, Mugaiteeb said.

Mainly concentrated in the Eastern Province, Shia’s constitute around 10 percent of the population of Saudi Arabia.
 


JSLeFanu

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Any form of Islam that does not conform with the Wahabi, state version is persecuted once they try to organize in the Kingdom: Saudi Arabia: Stop Religious Persecution of Ahmadis | Human Rights Watch
There are, sadly, many more cases of intolerance against non-Sunni Muslims.
And that's from Human Rights Watch, wow. I guess their Saudi fundraising isn't going so well anymore:

Human Rights Watch Goes to Saudi Arabia - WSJ.com

Human Rights Watch Goes to Saudi Arabia
Seeking Saudi Money to Counterbalance "Pro-Israel Pressure Groups"


A delegation from Human Rights Watch was recently in Saudi Arabia. To investigate the mistreatment of women under Saudi Law? To campaign for the rights of homosexuals, subject to the death penalty in Saudi Arabia? To protest the lack of religious freedom in the Saudi Kingdom? To issue a report on Saudi political prisoners?

No, no, no, and no. The delegation arrived to raise money from wealthy Saudis by highlighting HRW's demonization of Israel. An HRW spokesperson, Sarah Leah Whitson, highlighted HRW's battles with "pro-Israel pressure groups in the US, the European Union and the United Nations." (Was Ms. Whitson required to wear a burkha, or are exceptions made for visiting anti-Israel "human rights" activists"? Driving a car, no doubt, was out of the question.)

Apparently, Ms. Whitson found no time to criticize Saudi Arabia's abysmal human rights record. But never fear, HRW "recently called on the Kingdom to do more to protect the human rights of domestic workers.

There is nothing wrong with a human rights organization worrying about maltreatment of domestic workers. But there is something wrong when a human rights organization goes to one of the worst countries in the world for human rights to raise money to wage lawfare against Israel, and says not a word during the trip about the status of human rights in that country. In fact, it's a virtual certainty that everyone in Whitson's audience employs domestic servants, giving her a perfect, untaken opportunity to boast about HRW's work in improving the servants' status. But Whitson wasn't raising money for human rights, she was raising money for HRW's propaganda campaign against Israel.

Someone who claims to have worked for HRW wrote to me, "I can tell you that the people on the research and policy side of the organization have little, if any, contacts with people on the donor side." If that's true, apparently this is yet another exception HRW makes for Israel: Ms. Whitson, who gave the presentation to potential Saudi donors, is director of HRW's Middle East and North Africa Division.

Also, as a Nathan Wagner comments at Opinio Juris: "Surely there is a moral difference between raising funds in free nations through appeals to ideals of universal human rights and raising money in repressive nations through appeals highlighting pressure brought against their enemies. [Moreover], the former type of fundraising does not imperil the organization's mission, but fundraising Bernstein highlights does, since any significant reliance on such funds will necessarily mute criticism of the repressive government."

Finally, some would defend HRW by pointing it that it has criticized Saudi Arabia's human rights record rather severely in the past. The point of my post, though, is not that HRW is pro-Saudi, but that it is maniacally anti-Israel. The most recent manifestation is that its officers see nothing unseemly about raising funds among the elite of one of the most totalitarian nations on earth, with a pitch about how the money is needed to fight "pro-Israel forces," without the felt need to discuss any of the Saudis' manifold human rights violations, and without apparent concern that becoming dependent on funds emanating from a brutal dictatorship leaves you vulnerable to that brutal dictatorship later cutting off the flow of funds, if you don't "behave."
 

liamfoley

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The HRW story that I posted was from 2007, the WSJ article from last year, a change of policy in the meantime. Thanks for that I missed it.
 

Thac0man

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There are, sadly, many more cases of intolerance against non-Sunni Muslims.
Of course there are, and Saudi Arabia is not alone, Indonesia takes a harsh line against non-orthodox Sunni such as the Sunni Ahmediya sect. But in relation to Saudi Arabia, if they can arrest a Lebanese man for sorcery, why not a Shia for heresy? There has been an aweful lot of crap talked by Western 'Jihad Joes' who cannot tell the differance between a Shia and a Sunni. But both Saudi Arabia and Tehran can tell the differance. A Shia either is or is not a heretic. There no two interpreatations of what a Shia is. One book, one message, one faith. There is nowhere in Islam room for two faiths, on either side of the political/religous divide that is Shia and Sunni.

That split has played out to bloody effect in Iraq. And again it is something the Muslim world in the West has made huge efforts to ignore. But alledged Iranian interferance in Yeman has made recipricol action from Saudi Arabia inevitable.
 

Aindriu

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DigitalShariah : wibble, wibble, wibble, what about, whatabout .................. :D
 

WTTR

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Any form of Islam that does not conform with the Wahabi, state version is persecuted once they try to organize in the Kingdom: Saudi Arabia: Stop Religious Persecution of Ahmadis | Human Rights Watch
There are, sadly, many more cases of intolerance against non-Sunni Muslims.
I remember reading about the Wahabi after 9/11. They were linked to the Samma Bin Laden grouping. The West would call them extremists. One of their major strongholds was in Egypt. I think that they are linked to the Salafis, who are running second after the less extremist Muslim Brotherhood in the Egyptian Elections. I also read (sorry, I have not time to seek links) that the Saudi Arabians bankrolled the rebels in Libya. My guess is that they are also aiding the marching mainly Sunni people in Syria against the Alawite Shia Bashar al-Asad, but this I am not sure. The Saudis are backed by the Americans, the ruling regime in Syria is backed by the Russians; it is all getting a bit hot of late. Now, we have a semi-rising against the Putin Regime in Russia who, you can be sure, will not lie down. But you can be sure of one thing, that when the Islamists have it all sorted among themselves; they with their restless young will expand into ageing Europe.

While all this is happening the EU is preoccupied with the capitalist need for growth to rescue them from their economic woes. However, it is dawning on many world investors that there will be no more growth in Europe and are withdrawing their savings by the bucketful. Watch as the great EU banks fall like dominoes, unless the Germans have a change of heart and allow QE, which I doubt. I suppose the short term solution would be to kick the Germans out of the EU and then rev up the ECB note printing presses. What about the Arabs? Sur, aren’t they always fighting among themselves and if push comes to shove, have we not got the Atomic Bomb?
 
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former wesleyan

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I worked with and among the Shias of Q'atif in the Eastern Province. By and large - generalisations being what they are - they are civilised and dignified people who are routinely denied jobs and promotion in Aramco despite being in the main much better at their jobs than the Sunnis who, again a generalisation , imagine that a bad attitude is the equivalent of a third level degree.
 

Aristodemus

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A plague on both their houses. Let's face it, the shias are just as barbaric as the sunnis when it comes to expressions of dissent, vide Iran.
 

former wesleyan

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A plague on both their houses. Let's face it, the shias are just as barbaric as the sunnis when it comes to expressions of dissent, vide Iran.
That's a bit like comparing Shankill protestants with those of the English Home Counties. Some Saudi Shias are capable of violence but by and large they suffer discrimination in a dignified manner.
 

Aristodemus

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That's a bit like comparing Shankill protestants with those of the English Home Counties. Some Saudi Shias are capable of violence but by and large they suffer discrimination in a dignified manner.
Because they are a minority. Where they are a majority, such as in Iran the way they treat minorities is a disgrace. It seems part and parcel of what passes for religion with the mohommedans. Intolerance and violence against anyone who veers from the orthodox.
 

JamesMason

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Because they are a minority. Where they are a majority, such as in Iran the way they treat minorities is a disgrace. It seems part and parcel of what passes for religion with the mohommedans. Intolerance and violence against anyone who veers from the orthodox.
You really dont like ******* do you?

By the way Iran is a lot more tolerant than Eire which committed genocide against its Protestants once the English gave up responsibility for you barbarians because they figured you werent worth it.
 

Kevin Parlon

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You really dont like ******* do you?

By the way Iran is a lot more tolerant than Eire which committed genocide against its Protestants once the English gave up responsibility for you barbarians because they figured you werent worth it.
Thanks James. You've helped us all. We merely have to recall this post, the next time you post anything about anything.

In other news: Religious pilgrimage turns into nightmare

500 lashes and a year in prison for this Iraqi Aussie who when to the haj and said something about two dead guys who were famous being friends with another dead guy. Saudi religious culture will eventually devour itself. Something so nihilistic cannot but do so.
 

DownTheyGo

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That's a bit like comparing Shankill protestants with those of the English Home Counties. Some Saudi Shias are capable of violence but by and large they suffer discrimination in a dignified manner.
Yes they do. But I wouldn't be surprised to see those 20,000 in Al Khobar conveniently frog marched across the causeway into Bahrain where they can be monitored quite easily with the rest of their brethren so to speak.
 

former wesleyan

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Because they are a minority. Where they are a majority, such as in Iran the way they treat minorities is a disgrace. It seems part and parcel of what passes for religion with the mohommedans. Intolerance and violence against anyone who veers from the orthodox.
Shias are also a monority in Pakistan , India and Turkey where they contribute to culture through Sufism. On the sub-continent their music and painting is outstanding. Iran is a case apart and don't forget they were attacked by Iraq and not the other way around. I'm no fan of Salafist Islam btw, and would be harder on it than those on the nutty left who use is as a cudgel to beat America and Israel.
 

JamesMason

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Shias are also a monority in Pakistan , India and Turkey where they contribute to culture through Sufism. On the sub-continent their music and painting is outstanding. Iran is a case apart and don't forget they were attacked by Iraq and not the other way around. I'm no fan of Salafist Islam btw, and would be harder on it than those on the nutty left who use is as a cudgel to beat America and Israel.
Iran has a noble history though. The extremities of the regime are a product as a reaction to the decadence and treachery of the Shah's time, but I think they are gradually getting over it.
 

mistercrabs

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You really dont like ******* do you?

By the way Iran is a lot more tolerant than Eire which committed genocide against its Protestants once the English gave up responsibility for you barbarians because they figured you werent worth it.
Has Ian Paisley's evil twin discovered how to use the internet? It may interest you to note that discrimination against Protestants in Ireland has always between much less severe than discrimination against Catholics in Northern Ireland. In fact, we've had two Protestant presidents.
 

BlackLion

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Iran has a noble history though. The extremities of the regime are a product as a reaction to the decadence and treachery of the Shah's time, but I think they are gradually getting over it.
you do know that the nazis suggests the name Iran which means aryan. funny how life works eh?
 

Kevin Parlon

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I worked with and among the Shias of Q'atif in the Eastern Province. By and large - generalisations being what they are - they are civilised and dignified people who are routinely denied jobs and promotion in Aramco despite being in the main much better at their jobs than the Sunnis who, again a generalisation , imagine that a bad attitude is the equivalent of a third level degree.
The "active ingredient" within Islam which makes it so poisonous to progress is more virulent within the Sunni tradition. Ash'arites deny free will and rationalism. This school was part of sunni orthodoxy which eventually came to dominate. It means the scientific enquiry for example, is unislamic and useless. Things don't burn because they are combustable. They burn because Allah wills it to. A tree remains only a tree from one moment to the next, not because of physics or any type of natural law, but because again, Allah wills it. This denial of reason/rationality is at the core of muslim failure and has led to the stagnation and decline of the islamic world; it was Ash'arite thought which became dominant and effectively extinguished the early (progressive) promise of islamic culture. Early islamic culture embraced greek philosophy (from which its early acheivements are directly attributable) but this was sidelined by the growth and eventual dominance of the Ahsarites. Sh'ites are not so affected by this poisonous idiocy (though they have plenty of their own, albeit mostly harmless folklore) and so it isn't surprising you saw what you saw.


EDIT: Additionally, this school also puts the kybosh on any type of derivative moral philosophy which might be obtained from the Koran. It denies the very idea of "morality" and holds that because the mind of god is unknowable, any attempts to formulate a moral framework based on the scriptures is not allowed. God is not good. God is not bad. God is. The only "legal" framework then, comes from the literal interpretation of the koran. This fossilizes their culture and prevents them from developing the kind of evolving moral philosophy / enquiry seen in other religions. There is no good or evil; there is Ha'ram and Hal'al.
 
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ocoonassa

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Putting an end to backwards ignorant feudal religions begins at home. Close all the Madrassas in Ireland including the Roman Catholic ones, repeal the blasphemy law and take the references to the Abrahamic Sky Fairy out of the constitution. These people are going to start WWIII before long if The Enlightenment doesn't soon start to kick in on planet Earth.
 


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