• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Saying "The money needs to come from somewhere" betrays deep ignorance about what money is


feargach

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Messages
4,995
I saw this comment, and I thought it's indicative of not being accurately informed:

"Well, the budget needs to be balanced. Whether it's spending cuts or tax increases, I'm not disagreeing with the idea that the money needs to come from somewhere."

In medieval times, people thought that bees came from dead farm animals. They observed that whenever one came across the cadaver of any animal that had been dead for a while, there were always bees buzzing and crawling around it. So they put two and two together and got 57.

The modern version of this misconception is the quote above and the variants of it that constitute 80% of the posts on this website.

For every ordinary Joe anywhere (both those with no interest in doing some research to challenge their own presumptions, and also those willing to read a bit) it's indeed true that any money they have, they need to get from some other entity. Either the dole, or salary, or inheritance. So people like the poster above make the wrong assumption that you can broaden that out to all money.

But money isn't actually like that. Money is like the words on this page. I didn't have to "take" these words from somewhere else to put them here. I just pressed keys in a given order and the words appeared.

Money is created the same way, by means of computers used by people with government-issued licenses to issue credit. In this country and the rest of the Eurozone, the principal legal credit-issuer is a chap called Mario Draghi. Every day, his employees create tens of millions of Euros. No, not notes and coins. Do you know many people who paid for their houses with only notes and coins? You don't need notes and coins to have money. The vast majority of the world's money transactions don't involve a single note or a lone brass penny.

Where do Mario's men take the money from to issue it as credit? Nowhere. They just issue it.

It might be worthwhile to post a link to this OP the next time some uninformed person posts yet another repetition of the false statement above.

Some fool mentioned Zimbabwe and showed a multi-trillion dollar note, as if this proves something we didn't know. It's true that in 3rd world economies and war-ravaged western ones, a process called hyperinflation can occur. But it's not exactly what you'd call inevitable. Ever seen a non-doctored picture of a 50 trillion Swiss Franc note or a 100 trillion pounds sterling note?

Me neither. And guess what: you never will.
 
Last edited:


Ribeye

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
26,304
I so wanted to like that OP,

But alas, as I got to the end, I realised that the person telling others that they are ignorant, was himself, ignorant,

The stuff produced by Mario and Ben isn't money mate,
 

R3volution_R3ady

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
2,368
Fiat money is toilet paper.
 

IbrahaimMohamad

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
4,221
Not much point in working to earn money, if some Fairy Godmother will print some and lend it to your neighbours, (who will never pay it back), to compete against you, to buy the goods, you wish to buy, devaluing the money you have already earned and saved.

Pretty soon you would wonder if you too, could give up work ,and just get serial loans, that you would never have to pay back!

Pretty soon every one would figure working was a mugs game!
 

daveL

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Messages
19,591
I saw this comment, and I thought it's indicative of deep, bottomless ignorance:

"Well, the budget needs to be balanced. Whether it's spending cuts or tax increases, I'm not disagreeing with the idea that the money needs to come from somewhere."

In medieval times, people thought that bees came from dead farm animals. They observed that whenever one came across the cadaver of any animal that had been dead for a while, there were always bees buzzing and crawling around it. So they put two and two together and got 57.

The modern version of this misconception is the quote above and the variants of it that constitute 80% of the posts on this website.

For every ordinary Joe anywhere (both those with no interest in doing some research to challenge their own presumptions, and also those willing to read a bit) it's indeed true that any money they have, they need to get from some other entity. Either the dole, or salary, or inheritance. So people like the poster above make the wrong assumption that you can broaden that out to all money.

But money isn't actually like that. Money is like the words on this page. I didn't have to "take" these words from somewhere else to put them here. I just pressed keys in a given order and the words appeared.

Money is created the same way, by means of computers used by people with government-issued licenses to issue credit. In this country and the rest of the Eurozone, the principal legal credit-issuer is a chap called Mario Draghi. Every day, his employees create tens of millions of Euros. No, not notes and coins. Do you know many people who paid for their houses with only notes and coins? You don't need notes and coins to have money. The vast majority of the world's money transactions don't involve a single note or a lone brass penny.

Where do Mario's men take the money from to issue it as credit? Nowhere. They just issue it.

It might be worthwhile to post a link to this OP the next time some uninformed person posts yet another repetition of the false statement above
.
why? It's not that good nor that enlightening.

Get over yourself.
 

pragmaticapproach

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
8,817
I saw this comment, and I thought it's indicative of deep, bottomless ignorance:

"Well, the budget needs to be balanced. Whether it's spending cuts or tax increases, I'm not disagreeing with the idea that the money needs to come from somewhere."

In medieval times, people thought that bees came from dead farm animals. They observed that whenever one came across the cadaver of any animal that had been dead for a while, there were always bees buzzing and crawling around it. So they put two and two together and got 57.

The modern version of this misconception is the quote above and the variants of it that constitute 80% of the posts on this website.

For every ordinary Joe anywhere (both those with no interest in doing some research to challenge their own presumptions, and also those willing to read a bit) it's indeed true that any money they have, they need to get from some other entity. Either the dole, or salary, or inheritance. So people like the poster above make the wrong assumption that you can broaden that out to all money.

But money isn't actually like that. Money is like the words on this page. I didn't have to "take" these words from somewhere else to put them here. I just pressed keys in a given order and the words appeared.

Money is created the same way, by means of computers used by people with government-issued licenses to issue credit. In this country and the rest of the Eurozone, the principal legal credit-issuer is a chap called Mario Draghi. Every day, his employees create tens of millions of Euros. No, not notes and coins. Do you know many people who paid for their houses with only notes and coins? You don't need notes and coins to have money. The vast majority of the world's money transactions don't involve a single note or a lone brass penny.

Where do Mario's men take the money from to issue it as credit? Nowhere. They just issue it.

It might be worthwhile to post a link to this OP the next time some uninformed person posts yet another repetition of the false statement above.
You're right, lets just crank up the printing press, we can print all the money we need. If people start to lose faith in the currency and start doing business through alternative means of exchange, we can just lock them up. What could possibly go wrong?????

 
Last edited:

parentheses

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
13,827
Not much point in working to earn money, if some Fairy Godmother will print some and lend it to your neighbours, (who will never pay it back), to compete against you, to buy the goods, you wish to buy, devaluing the money you have already earned and saved.

Pretty soon you would wonder if you too, could give up work ,and just get serial loans, that you would never have to pay back!

Pretty soon every one would figure working was a mugs game!
You're describing Ireland during the boom!
 

Spanner Island

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
24,199
Fiat money + QE/Printing and we may as well transact using Monopoly money...

The OP seems to be oblivious to this...

Still... it is funny how the world participates in this charade every day...
 

Pat Gill

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
5,301
Website
www.energyco-ops.ie
Twitter
Pat_Gill
Fiat money is toilet paper.
Perhaps, but then you might raise a small objection if your boss were to pay next months salary in sheets of Andrex ?

Come back and talk to us after the Gold standard is reintroduced or perhaps we might innovate, a Lithium standard anyone ?
 

Ribeye

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
26,304
The solution to printing money.....

is printing guns,

Don't ye just fckn love tech nerds,
 

dancl2000

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 17, 2011
Messages
517
I saw this comment, and I thought it's indicative of deep, bottomless ignorance:

"Well, the budget needs to be balanced. Whether it's spending cuts or tax increases, I'm not disagreeing with the idea that the money needs to come from somewhere."

In medieval times, people thought that bees came from dead farm animals. They observed that whenever one came across the cadaver of any animal that had been dead for a while, there were always bees buzzing and crawling around it. So they put two and two together and got 57.

The modern version of this misconception is the quote above and the variants of it that constitute 80% of the posts on this website.

For every ordinary Joe anywhere (both those with no interest in doing some research to challenge their own presumptions, and also those willing to read a bit) it's indeed true that any money they have, they need to get from some other entity. Either the dole, or salary, or inheritance. So people like the poster above make the wrong assumption that you can broaden that out to all money.

But money isn't actually like that. Money is like the words on this page. I didn't have to "take" these words from somewhere else to put them here. I just pressed keys in a given order and the words appeared.

Money is created the same way, by means of computers used by people with government-issued licenses to issue credit. In this country and the rest of the Eurozone, the principal legal credit-issuer is a chap called Mario Draghi. Every day, his employees create tens of millions of Euros. No, not notes and coins. Do you know many people who paid for their houses with only notes and coins? You don't need notes and coins to have money. The vast majority of the world's money transactions don't involve a single note or a lone brass penny.

Where do Mario's men take the money from to issue it as credit? Nowhere. They just issue it.

It might be worthwhile to post a link to this OP the next time some uninformed person posts yet another repetition of the false statement above.
I love the people who have simple answers to every problem. Lets say we try it your way, forget about balancing the budget, lets pay the civil servants whatever they want and anyone unemployed, lets give them a job digging holes and filling them back in again, we'll magic the money for this into existence because we can do that.

No need for taxes anymore either with this approach, that'll go down well with the electorate and while we're creating money with no restrictions who needs tax revenue

I'm sure most people can see that sooner or later creating money with no restrictions leads to the above, and the people who today create value by working hard will realise that there's no point in working hard because htere are easier ways to get cash in a society where money is created without restriction.

History tells us where such policies end, there are many examples on the wikipedia page for hyper inflation Hyperinflation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So either
- you're for hyperinflation
- you think that money creation without restriction doesnt lead to hyper inflation and as such the burden of proof is on you to show why because the evidence of history is clear
- you're in favour of looser monetary policy but still restricted, in which case the debate is what are the restrictions and the likelihood is that austerity and balanced budgets will stlil be necessary
 

Ribeye

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
26,304
Perhaps, but then you might raise a small objection if your boss were to pay next months salary in sheets of Andrex ?

Come back and talk to us after the Gold standard is reintroduced or perhaps we might innovate, a Lithium standard anyone ?
Meh,

We don't even need a gold standard,

When the paper goes bang, which it will,

They'll be gladly accepting gold and silver everywhere,

I wonder how much gold a Double Cheesberger will cost in Maccers,

Hmmm,

"gets calculator"
 

Pat Gill

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
5,301
Website
www.energyco-ops.ie
Twitter
Pat_Gill
I so wanted to like that OP,

But alas, as I got to the end, I realised that the person telling others that they are ignorant, was himself, ignorant,

The stuff produced by Mario and Ben isn't money mate,
Ribeye,

Perhaps the reason why inflation has not taken off despite Ben and Mario trillions is that the results of the printing is being used to rebuild the structure of the financial system rather than finding its way to the lowest tier of participation i.e. the practical everyday economy.
 

Pat Gill

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
5,301
Website
www.energyco-ops.ie
Twitter
Pat_Gill
Meh,

We don't even need a gold standard,

When the paper goes bang, which it will,

They'll be gladly accepting gold and silver everywhere,

I wonder how much gold a Double Cheesberger will cost in Maccers,

Hmmm,

"gets calculator"
The return of the Highwayman will be fun :lol:
 

feargach

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Messages
4,995
You're right, lets just crank up the printing press, we can print all the money we need.
Show me where I advocated doing that?

All I said was money gets issued out of nowhere.

This is also true of the Bank of England.

Would you care to show me a picture of ten trillion pound sterling note?

This is also true of the Central Bank of Switzerland.

Would you care to show me a picture of ten trillion swiss franc note?

If you don't, then you are simply a liar.
 

Ribeye

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
26,304
Ribeye,

Perhaps the reason why inflation has not taken off despite Ben and Mario trillions is that the results of the printing is being used to rebuild the structure of the financial system rather than finding its way to the lowest tier of participation i.e. the practical everyday economy.
If you think that there's no inflation, I suggest that you accompany your wife to the supermarket,

Start at the beef counter,
 

pragmaticapproach

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
8,817
Show me where I advocated doing that?

All I said was money gets issued out of nowhere.

This is also true of the Bank of England.

Would you care to show me a picture of ten trillion pound sterling note?

This is also true of the Central Bank of Switzerland.

Would you care to show me a picture of ten trillion swiss franc note?

If you don't, then you are simply a liar.
The Swiss central bank sets very tight limits on inflation, in addition to this they have a debt brake, which goes hand in glove with their monetary policy. Switzerland's "Debt Brake" Is a Role Model for Spending Control and Fiscal Restraint - Forbes

I have a question for you, how did money first arise in the market place?
 

wishywashy

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
2,616
I saw this comment, and I thought it's indicative of deep, bottomless ignorance:

"Well, the budget needs to be balanced. Whether it's spending cuts or tax increases, I'm not disagreeing with the idea that the money needs to come from somewhere."

In medieval times, people thought that bees came from dead farm animals. They observed that whenever one came across the cadaver of any animal that had been dead for a while, there were always bees buzzing and crawling around it. So they put two and two together and got 57.

The modern version of this misconception is the quote above and the variants of it that constitute 80% of the posts on this website.

For every ordinary Joe anywhere (both those with no interest in doing some research to challenge their own presumptions, and also those willing to read a bit) it's indeed true that any money they have, they need to get from some other entity. Either the dole, or salary, or inheritance. So people like the poster above make the wrong assumption that you can broaden that out to all money.

But money isn't actually like that. Money is like the words on this page. I didn't have to "take" these words from somewhere else to put them here. I just pressed keys in a given order and the words appeared.

Money is created the same way, by means of computers used by people with government-issued licenses to issue credit. In this country and the rest of the Eurozone, the principal legal credit-issuer is a chap called Mario Draghi. Every day, his employees create tens of millions of Euros. No, not notes and coins. Do you know many people who paid for their houses with only notes and coins? You don't need notes and coins to have money. The vast majority of the world's money transactions don't involve a single note or a lone brass penny.

Where do Mario's men take the money from to issue it as credit? Nowhere. They just issue it.

It might be worthwhile to post a link to this OP the next time some uninformed person posts yet another repetition of the false statement above.


Imagine telling that to the barman.
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top