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SC Bose and the Indian National Army


FloatingVoterTralee

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Reading The Raj Quartet, passing reference is made to the above group, and the back-story is rather similar to that of Seán Russell. Upon the declaration of WW2, even the mainstream Congress leadership took umbrage that Britain included India without consultation, and were inclined to neutrality. Bose, however, decided that only active support for the Axis would secure Indian independence, travelling firstly to Berlin, and later to Tokyo, where the latter placed him in charge of an Indian National Army, which would march with their fellow Asians and inspire popular rebellion. Their actual wartime activities proved somewhat inept, only resulting in defeat, disease and desertion. The most interesting coda occurred later, as when INA survivors were put on trial, the public reaction was surprisingly, one of patriotic support, and it has been claimed the trials accelerated the timescale for eventual independence. So, much like the IRA, the difference between patriotism and treachery very much depends on individual perspective.
 


former wesleyan

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Absconded from house arrest in Calcutta, came to Ireland in a German submarine, met De Valera, from here straight to Japan. Was a fan of Terence McSwiney and there's a quote from him on a marble inset in his house in Tollygunge, Calcutta.
 

Catalpast

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Absconded from house arrest in Calcutta, came to Ireland in a German submarine, met De Valera, from here straight to Japan. Was a fan of Terence McSwiney and there's a quote from him on a marble inset in his house in Tollygunge, Calcutta.

er...when was this?:shock:
 

edwin

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Absconded from house arrest in Calcutta, came to Ireland in a German submarine, met De Valera, from here straight to Japan. Was a fan of Terence McSwiney and there's a quote from him on a marble inset in his house in Tollygunge, Calcutta.
So his nazi supporting activities are more than mitigated by his admiration of Irish independence heroes! :D
 

former wesleyan

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So his nazi supporting activities are more than mitigated by his admiration of Irish independence heroes! :D
He repudiated the racial theories of the Nazis but admired their organisational abilities; he was a kind of communist at heart really. He admired Sinn Feins " put them in to get them out " strategies. Used Irish analogies all the time when arguing his corner with the rest of the Congress Party.
 

Malcolm Redfellow

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More to this than meets the eye?

Bose remains a hot topic: try this one, from History Today, November 2010.

Or this article, from firstpost.com/india. That links to a book by Anuj Dhar. And another which is apparently available only on Kindle. In some quarters, Bose seems to have the same elusive fascination as Lord Lucan.

There's also a website with considerable information.

Then there is the "disputed" marriage. Bose formalised a relationship with his Austrian secretary, Emilie Schenkl, sometime in the war years, apparently by Hindu rites (obviously formal marriage was impossible under Nazi race laws).

Their child is Anita, who became a Professor of Economics at the University of Augsburg. She married Martin Pfaff, another Augsburg academic (also in economics, I believe), and for a dozen years an SPD member of the Bundestag.
 
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teapot

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So his nazi supporting activities are more than mitigated by his admiration of Irish independence heroes! :D
His 'Nazi supporting' was totally because he was anti-British. Sound familiar?

His Army would be drawn from Indian Army personnel captured by the Japanese, a lá Casement. History says that they both were sucking on the wrong tit - one full of poison. The Japanese were the enemy. No matter how anti British one may be, the Japanese were the enemy. They spread across that part of the world like a cancer; treating subjected peoples and POWs to the worst atrocities; following their belief in the Emperor and their superior status. They would have enslaved India much as Nazi Germany would have enslaved Ireland.

Bose would have been betraying the people of India, not just the Raj.
 
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Catalpast

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Well, during WW11 of course !!
So in the middle of WWII he made his way from Neutral Ireland to Japan?

How - was there a UBoat waiting for him in Dublin Bay?:shock:

IIRC though there is some doubt as to what happened to him as his body was never found?
 

former wesleyan

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So in the middle of WWII he made his way from Neutral Ireland to Japan?

How - was there a UBoat waiting for him in Dublin Bay?:shock:

IIRC though there is some doubt as to what happened to him as his body was never found?
Yes. Yes. Indeed. ( in that order ) :)
 

owedtojoy

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His 'Nazi supporting' was totally because he was anti-British. Sound familiar?

His Army would be drawn from Indian Army personnel captured by the Japanese, a lá Casement. History says that they both were sucking on the wrong tit - one full of poison. The Japanese were the enemy. No matter how anti British one may be, the Japanese were the enemy. They spread across that part of the world like a cancer; treating subjected peoples and POWs to the worst atrocities; following their belief in the Emperor and their superior status. They would have enslaved India much as Nazi Germany would have enslaved Ireland.

Bose would have been betraying the people of India, not just the Raj.
The Japanese were unbelieveably cruel conquerors. In Nanking in 1937 they raped and murdered indiscriminately. The recent film The Flowers of War is not a great film, but gives a real flavour of the conquest of China. In the countryside, they kidnapped women to drag along on their marches as sexual partners, usually before murdering them. For this, they have never expressed any regret or paid any compensation, in contrast to Germany.

They were much the same wherever they went, treating formerly subject people with complete contempt, and they would have treated India no differently.
 

teapot

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Subhas Chandra BOSE was an Indian opportunist who, hating British 'rule' thought he would cash in on the Japanese incursion into SE Asia to ally himself with them - trying to convince them that with his help, of course, the invasion of India - the Jewel in the Crown - was a dead cert. He would raise an Army of disaffected (and Japanese POW) Indians who would bring this about.

India was brought into WWII by the British Govt without consultation of the Indians - after all, it was the EMPIRE of India - the other Commonwealth Countries of Australia, NZ, Canada, S/Africa were not Empire (but Dominions, Commonwealths, etc) and therefore capable of determining their own fate - which they did and declared war on Germany. India had no choice.
So there was resentment in India about this, plus they wanted to be free. But by and large, the Indian population saw the Japanese aggression as a threat; not as a liberating military force come to free them; and fought against this oppression.

The record of the Indian soldier in WWII is generally outstanding. They were brave men who fought at Kohima and in other battles too numerous to number. I had one uncle with the Chindits and another with Slim's 14th Army - what I am saying is not bullshlt.

The Sikhs and Rajputs and Ghurkas and the rest of them did what was expected of Indian soldiers by India...

Subhas Chandra Bose was a traitor - and though his attempted betrayal of the Raj is the reason for his inclusion in the records of infamy, his real betrayal was of those brave Indians who were fighting the greater threat to the eventual freedom of their country.

My heart is with them - they helped to fight the Japanese from the gates of India; through the forests of Burma to the tip of what is now Indonesia, and they did not stop until it was over.

We ought to be grateful to them.
 

teapot

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The Japanese were unbelieveably cruel conquerors. In Nanking in 1937 they raped and murdered indiscriminately. The recent film The Flowers of War is not a great film, but gives a real flavour of the conquest of China. In the countryside, they kidnapped women to drag along on their marches as sexual partners, usually before murdering them. For this, they have never expressed any regret or paid any compensation, in contrast to Germany.

They were much the same wherever they went, treating formerly subject people with complete contempt, and they would have treated India no differently.
Try to watch the 2009 Chinese film - 'City of Life and Death' re the rape of Nanking - it was on TV recently, I saw it, whether or not on Sat TV cannot remember...
 

owedtojoy

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Subhas Chandra BOSE was an Indian opportunist who, hating British 'rule' thought he would cash in on the Japanese incursion into SE Asia to ally himself with them - trying to convince them that with his help, of course, the invasion of India - the Jewel in the Crown - was a dead cert. He would raise an Army of disaffected (and Japanese POW) Indians who would bring this about.

India was brought into WWII by the British Govt without consultation of the Indians - after all, it was the EMPIRE of India - the other Commonwealth Countries of Australia, NZ, Canada, S/Africa were not Empire (but Dominions, Commonwealths, etc) and therefore capable of determining their own fate - which they did and declared war on Germany. India had no choice.
So there was resentment in India about this, plus they wanted to be free. But by and large, the Indian population saw the Japanese aggression as a threat; not as a liberating military force come to free them; and fought against this oppression.

The record of the Indian soldier in WWII is generally outstanding. They were brave men who fought at Kohima and in other battles too numerous to number. I had one uncle with the Chindits and another with Slim's 14th Army - what I am saying is not bullshlt.

The Sikhs and Rajputs and Ghurkas and the rest of them did what was expected of Indian soldiers by India...

Subhas Chandra Bose was a traitor - and though his attempted betrayal of the Raj is the reason for his inclusion in the records of infamy, his real betrayal was of those brave Indians who were fighting the greater threat to the eventual freedom of their country.

My heart is with them - they helped to fight the Japanese from the gates of India; through the forests of Burma to the tip of what is now Indonesia, and they did not stop until it was over.

We ought to be grateful to them.
Bose's Indian National Army were a big disappointment to the Japanese - they were totally ineffective in combat, and either fled or surrendered when faced with enemy attack.

It never seems to have numbered more than 40,000, contrast to the 2 million or so Indians who served the British.

On the other hand, many were defiant even in defeat, and made most British officers realise they could no longer totally count on their troops from the sub-continent. Though Indian divisions served with an excellent record in Italy, the Middle East, India itself and Burma, Churchill mused that it was a poor enough return for the number of men recruited.

Among Indian civilians, many were indifferent, even blase, about the outcome of the war. Gandhi wrote that Indians could overcome the Japanese with non-violence if they conquered India. The fate of China seems to have had little impact on the expectations or policy of the Congress Party.
 

Catalpast

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Catalpast

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Subhas Chandra BOSE was an Indian opportunist who, hating British 'rule' thought he would cash in on the Japanese incursion into SE Asia to ally himself with them - trying to convince them that with his help, of course, the invasion of India - the Jewel in the Crown - was a dead cert. He would raise an Army of disaffected (and Japanese POW) Indians who would bring this about.

India was brought into WWII by the British Govt without consultation of the Indians - after all, it was the EMPIRE of India - the other Commonwealth Countries of Australia, NZ, Canada, S/Africa were not Empire (but Dominions, Commonwealths, etc) and therefore capable of determining their own fate - which they did and declared war on Germany. India had no choice.
So there was resentment in India about this, plus they wanted to be free. But by and large, the Indian population saw the Japanese aggression as a threat; not as a liberating military force come to free them; and fought against this oppression.

The record of the Indian soldier in WWII is generally outstanding. They were brave men who fought at Kohima and in other battles too numerous to number. I had one uncle with the Chindits and another with Slim's 14th Army - what I am saying is not bullshlt.

The Sikhs and Rajputs and Ghurkas and the rest of them did what was expected of Indian soldiers by India...

Subhas Chandra Bose was a traitor - and though his attempted betrayal of the Raj is the reason for his inclusion in the records of infamy, his real betrayal was of those brave Indians who were fighting the greater threat to the eventual freedom of their country.

My heart is with them - they helped to fight the Japanese from the gates of India; through the forests of Burma to the tip of what is now Indonesia, and they did not stop until it was over.

We ought to be grateful to them.
Why

- were we threatened with a Japanese Invasion?petunia
 

former wesleyan

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Ah so he didn't visit here during the War at all as you stated

He came here in 1936

- had he lived he could have been a future Leader of India!
The expert's asleep right now, but I'll delve deeper when she awakes tomorrow. She, not me, might have got the dates wrong. :cool: Anyway he came here and talked to Dev. Not a lot of people knew that.
 

sondagefaux

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Don't know about his politics, but I've heard he was an excellent speaker.
 

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