Scandal of New Children's Hospital Spending overrun - will Harris resign? Of course not

Massey

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Consolidation of expensive medical treatments can save huge sums on equipment, training and with sharply increased turnover per consultant. The centres of excellence in cancer are the best example.
Pat , I hate to tell you, but no, you are incorrect - it does not save money. Never has been shown to.

Just like building a new childrens hospital will save money on heating..................but spends more on air-conditioning.
 


Orbit v2

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Pat , I hate to tell you, but no, you are incorrect - it does not save money. Never has been shown to.
That report is from the UK, not here. I would expect UK hospitals to already be mostly larger than here. So, reconfiguration might not necessarily work if all (or most) hospitals already have a minimum scale to be efficient. But, that's clearly not the situation here, with surgeons in small hospitals only have small numbers of cases, and A&E depts not open 24x7 etc.
Just like building a new childrens hospital will save money on heating..................but spends more on air-conditioning.
How did you figure that out?
 

Massey

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That report is from the UK, not here. I would expect UK hospitals to already be mostly larger than here. So, reconfiguration might not necessarily work if all (or most) hospitals already have a minimum scale to be efficient. But, that's clearly not the situation here, with surgeons in small hospitals only have small numbers of cases, and A&E depts not open 24x7 etc.

How did you figure that out?
Reconfiguration is put forward as a great way to save money and lives, it does not save money, and more lives are lost through overcrowding than would ever be saved through sub- specialisation.

It is interesting as public emergency departments close , more and more private ones are opening.
Thousands of acute public beds are closed through reconfiguration in the belief it saves money, it does not , never will, and the evidence about better outcomes is flimsy to say the least.

BTW, What emergency departments are not open 24/7.
 

Orbit v2

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Reconfiguration is put forward as a great way to save money and lives, it does not save money, and more lives are lost through overcrowding than would ever be saved through sub- specialisation.

It is interesting as public emergency departments close , more and more private ones are opening.
That's a different issue I think. People with money will choose to pay to beat the queues etc at regular A&E. This would happen regardless of reconfiguration.
Thousands of acute public beds are closed through reconfiguration in the belief it saves money, it does not , never will, and the evidence about better outcomes is flimsy to say the least.

BTW, What emergency departments are not open 24/7.
I was thinking of Roscommon, which actually was open 24/7 but iirc didn't have many patients at night, and had a poor reputation for cardiac outcomes because of the lack of scale I was talking about.

Seems to me consolidating A&Es in places where they are kept busy is a sensible move. Obviously, that can create other problems if the receiving A&E doesn't have the capacity. But, that's a better problem to have.
 

Massey

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That's a different issue I think. People with money will choose to pay to beat the queues etc at regular A&E. This would happen regardless of reconfiguration.

I was thinking of Roscommon, which actually was open 24/7 but iirc didn't have many patients at night, and had a poor reputation for cardiac outcomes because of the lack of scale I was talking about.

Seems to me consolidating A&Es in places where they are kept busy is a sensible move. Obviously, that can create other problems if the receiving A&E doesn't have the capacity. But, that's a better problem to have.
There were no private A&Es until 10 years ago. The trolleys got so bad , well off people had to spend nights on trolleys surrounded by poor people, nothing to do with queues.

The lies that were told about Roscommon cardiology outcomes are well documented, and this led to the closure of Roscommon hospital and now the patients are treated in the super safe Savita Halapanavar hospital.

 

Patslatt1

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We spend nowhere near that. Take a third off your figure and you get total spending which includes cash payments "out of pocket" - the patients pocket, not his/her taxes and health insurance payments. In 2016, government spending was half of your figure.
Ireland spends €20 billion per year on healthcare, here's where the money goes
GDP NONSENSE
The report should have used national income instead of the GDP numbers artificially inflated by about 30% by multinational financial transactions and tax avoidance accounting. So 7.4% of 130% is equivalent to 9.6% of national income, although recent figures are quoted at 12%.
 

Massey

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These figures include private hospitals , government spending is 72% of the figure.
so the figure of public spend is about 7.4% of GNI.
 
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Watcher2

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GDP NONSENSE
The report should have used national income instead of the GDP numbers artificially inflated by about 30% by multinational financial transactions and tax avoidance accounting. So 7.4% of 130% is equivalent to 9.6% of national income, although recent figures are quoted at 12%.
You only need to focus on the nominal amount for the purposes of the post.
 

Patslatt1

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I hope they've budgeted for a big enough morgue...


....just when you think the HSE couldn't disappoint you any more it pulls this kind of sh-it out of the bag.
The Irish like to squander government money on a hospital in every town and a self indulgent health care labour force operating like a workers' co-op and heavily protected by unions and professions.
 

Massey

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Closing smaller hospitals costs more money, and the resulting overcrowding actually leads to poorer outcomes.
 

borntorum

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More huge overruns in health again this year. Yet another massive failing on Harris's watch. Yet again the media manage to avoid calling him out over it.

Maybe he can put up another desperate virtue-signalling tweet for likes so as to distract attention for his own ineptitude
 

james toney

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Leo Varadkar has said today that the costs of the NCH could well rise further according to the contractor.
Probably over 2 billion.
A very convenient period to hide more shocking news and further scandal by Fine Gael.
 

james toney

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More huge overruns in health again this year. Yet another massive failing on Harris's watch. Yet again the media manage to avoid calling him out over it.

Maybe he can put up another desperate virtue-signalling tweet for likes so as to distract attention for his own ineptitude
It has already started.
 

SuirView

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Any comment from poor "stanley" or "hbap"?
 

james toney

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The Mafia could learn a thing or two from this coalition of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.

'The Chairman of the board of the National Children's Hospital has told a Dáil committee that construction of the hospital has been delayed by a few months and the current cost of the entire project of €1.73bn may run over again.'
Fred Barry told the Public Accounts Committee the cost of the hospital will go over budget by between €2m and €2.9m for this year due to construction inflation.
'The current cost of the entire project is €1.73bn after being initially estimated at €650m'
Mr Barry said that if inflation is over 4% there will be extra costs over the guaranteed maximum price of €1.433bn due to inflation costs.
 

wombat

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Mr Barry said that if inflation is over 4% there will be extra costs over the guaranteed maximum price of €1.433bn due to inflation costs.
This seems to be beyond the understanding ability of the average TD. It sounds like he can only suffer fools up to a point. National children’s hospital chairman ‘gobsmacked’ by committee questions
This is a guy who managed the construction of the first Intel plant and several pharma plants before taking over the NRA and turning it around so road projects came in on time and budget being questioned by people who couldn't put up a kitchen shelf. :)
 

Sweet Darling

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The Mafia could learn a thing or two from this coalition of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail.

'The Chairman of the board of the National Children's Hospital has told a Dáil committee that construction of the hospital has been delayed by a few months and the current cost of the entire project of €1.73bn may run over again.'
Fred Barry told the Public Accounts Committee the cost of the hospital will go over budget by between €2m and €2.9m for this year due to construction inflation.
'The current cost of the entire project is €1.73bn after being initially estimated at €650m'
Mr Barry said that if inflation is over 4% there will be extra costs over the guaranteed maximum price of €1.433bn due to inflation costs.
Maybe we need to review the Civil service entrance exam.
Seems like to many gobshits are still getting in.
 

james toney

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wombat

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Closing smaller hospitals costs more money, and the resulting overcrowding actually leads to poorer outcomes.
No, closing small hospitals cost seats at elections. Hospitals are the equivalent of large factories in smaller towns, they provide jobs and a market for local suppliers. If you're sick and lucky, they will ship you to a bigger hospital before you die.
 


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