Scandal of New Children's Hospital Spending overrun - will Harris resign? Of course not

Massey

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New 270 bed childrens hospital in Liverpool completed in 130 days for £237 million.

Maybe we could ask them to build 6 for what we're spending!
The new hospital in Glasgow 1100 adult single be rooms and 260 paediatric beds for £842 million.

We could build new St James and national childrens with ample parking for less.
 


D

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The new hospital in Glasgow 1100 adult single be rooms and 260 paediatric beds for £842 million.

We could build new St James and national childrens with ample parking for less.
I hope you’re not running for election with your weeny ideas.

We could investigate life on Mars, Saturn, Pluto and Venus for less than we’re paying to investigate the cost overrun on this project.

And the best thing is, nobody cares either way mwahahaha.
 

wombat

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There is no way that a building project set to cost 480million should be heading north toward 2 billion within a few years. Someone is busy treating that project as a pipeline from the public purse.
Maybe the PWC report will explain what has happened. My guess is that the budget was decided on a cost per bed using European norms with a contingency added for the use of an existing site. From the little information that I have seen, the actual building cost can be explained by inflation. What seems to have grown out of all proportion are the M&E costs, specifically cabling which sounds to me like the IT scope is far beyond what's needed. Its likely that equipment costs have risen substantially as some equipment probably did not exist when the project was planned. I would like to see how much is being allowed for the offsite facilities at Tallaght and Blanchardstown - how much of that should come from the budgets for the other hospitals? Similarly, new equipment being bought for the project will likely be used at the adult James. A lot of these items will be needed and will be paid for by the taxpayer but we should know what is new spend for the children's hospital and what is needed even without it.
 

ruman

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Maybe the PWC report will explain what has happened. My guess is that the budget was decided on a cost per bed using European norms with a contingency added for the use of an existing site. From the little information that I have seen, the actual building cost can be explained by inflation. What seems to have grown out of all proportion are the M&E costs, specifically cabling which sounds to me like the IT scope is far beyond what's needed. Its likely that equipment costs have risen substantially as some equipment probably did not exist when the project was planned. I would like to see how much is being allowed for the offsite facilities at Tallaght and Blanchardstown - how much of that should come from the budgets for the other hospitals? Similarly, new equipment being bought for the project will likely be used at the adult James. A lot of these items will be needed and will be paid for by the taxpayer but we should know what is new spend for the children's hospital and what is needed even without it.
Additionally it was deliberatedly undercosted to ensure the unsuitable James St location was chosen
 

ruman

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There is no political will to cut the project scope of work because "our children deserve the best" aka don't hit me with the child in my arms. Talk of a remote greenfield site negates the prime reason for locating the hospital at James or Mater - access to a main adult hospital.
Thats the sad thing, the hospital wont be the best. Even after paying vastly over the odds children will end up in a 2nd rate hospital that has no additional beds
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
If PWC were going to actually produce a report that would be made public (unlikely if accurately carried out) they might want, as people reportedly with some auditing experience, to check the quantity surveying element where steel joists and concrete panels were specified in certain amounts necessary for the building, then check the invoicing of same to see whether the amounts ordered and delivered to site match even remotely.

My bet is that there is a lot more materiel being ordered and 'disappearing' from the site than was specified in the quantity surveyor's estimates.

PwC should be able to manage that. QS/Purchasing/Delivery and a stocktake. Betting that would reveal a few issues.
 

ruman

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If PWC were going to actually produce a report that would be made public (unlikely if accurately carried out) they might want, as people reportedly with some auditing experience, to check the quantity surveying element where steel joists and concrete panels were specified in certain amounts necessary for the building, then check the invoicing of same to see whether the amounts ordered and delivered to site match even remotely.

My bet is that there is a lot more materiel being ordered and 'disappearing' from the site than was specified in the quantity surveyor's estimates.

PwC should be able to manage that. QS/Purchasing/Delivery and a stocktake. Betting that would reveal a few issues.
I wouldnt be holding out much hope of the PWC audit coming up with anyhthing earth shattering. They are unlikely to jepordise the huge revenue they receive from public sector consultancy work by biting the hand that feeds them.
Lets be honest its just a PR stunt to appease the public criticism.
 

Fr. Ted Crilly

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Look lads, this is taxpayers money being squandered by our glorious CS/PS office boys.
There will be no accountability for the massive overruns, FFG cronies will make a killing and all you good little serfs will put FFG back at the till come the next election.

No point in whinging about the things you all facilitate so suck it up and STFU!

Post number 27 is fully correct and ye will cough up that half a million without question,.
Now, pipe down and get back to being fleeced.
 

OrderoftheDragon

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Look lads, this is taxpayers money being squandered by our glorious CS/PS office boys.
There will be no accountability for the massive overruns, FFG cronies will make a killing and all you good little serfs will put FFG back at the till come the next election.

No point in whinging about the things you all facilitate so suck it up and STFU!
I don't often agree with you but that's the sum total of it, it is also quite telling that all the heavy hitters in cabinet are all on message on this one, someone is making it big on the "poor Children's" hospital.

It's all about again..........what about now, they all appear to be happy to look the other way.

If we had any journalists in this country as opposed to establishment press release pushers, people would be already investigating the companies who got the work, the actual companies doing it and the real costs of construction.

Follow the money on this one, because it has BertieBowl written all over it................
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I wouldnt be holding out much hope of the PWC audit coming up with anyhthing earth shattering. They are unlikely to jepordise the huge revenue they receive from public sector consultancy work by biting the hand that feeds them.
Lets be honest its just a PR stunt to appease the public criticism.
Oh absolutely. Seeing as any mismanagement over procurement costs would politically be laid at the door of those who commissioned PwC, PwC are hardly going to drop their clients in it.

Messrs Price, Waterhouse and Cooper didn't get where they are today and go through a number of rebrandings by delivering bad news to their clients.
 

Fr. Ted Crilly

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I don't often agree with you but that's the sum total of it, it is also quite telling that all the heavy hitters in cabinet are all on message on this one, someone is making it big on the "poor Children's" hospital.

It's all about again..........what about now, they all appear to be happy to look the other way.

If we had any journalists in this country as opposed to establishment press release pushers, people would be already investigating the companies who got the work, the actual companies doing it and the real costs of construction.

Follow the money on this one, because it has BertieBowl written all over it................
Remember, for all this money, we won't get one single extra bed for our sick children.
Not one.

'Middle Ireland ' screwed again by the dogs they elect.....
 
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Lumpy Talbot

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No
If PwC do find 'capperbar' on a massive scale the government won't publish the report. If they can come up with imaginative corporate phrasings to explain capperbar on a massive scale, such as 'procurement process mis-steps' in and amid six other imaginative phrasings without ever linking it to a number then it will be published so that the Auditor General can issue a strongly worded harrumph and the Public Accounts Committee can harrumph a bit over a few days too.

And some new holiday homes on sun-kissed islands will be bought out of it.
 

Patslatt1

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From today's ST , an article by Conor Brady on how the projected cost of the new Children's Hospital has gone from 484m in 2012 to a whopping 2 billion euros now.

Why aren't the media crucifying Simon Harris and FG over this? ( I can make an educated guess as to why not ).




Conor Brady: Will anyone pay the price for the national children's hospital fiasco? | Ireland | The Sunday Times
The buck for this colossal cost overrun stops with the health minister and the government, not the HSE which is known to be inept and dysfunctional.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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I wouldnt be holding out much hope of the PWC audit coming up with anyhthing earth shattering. They are unlikely to jepordise the huge revenue they receive from public sector consultancy work by biting the hand that feeds them.
Lets be honest its just a PR stunt to appease the public criticism.
Why do you think they were picked in the first place - they have form here - writing forensic impenetrable reports that blame no one but I imagine there'll be many references to Brexit and the recovery.
 

Fr. Ted Crilly

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The buck for this colossal cost overrun stops with the health minister and the government, not the HSE which is known to be inept and dysfunctional.
Blueshirt cowards will blame FFail or anyone else....
It certainly won't be their fault, it never is.
 

wombat

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Most of the increased costs are future costs, the project has barely started, I'm not sure a contractor has been selected yet. It is the scope of the project that needs explaining.
 

wombat

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I'd like to see the team headed by a few hospital people from out foreign who managed to get their projects done for roughly the price promised.
My bet is that its the hospital peoples' wish lists that is the cause of the problem.
 

Ardillaun

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Most of the increased costs are future costs, the project has barely started, I'm not sure a contractor has been selected yet. It is the scope of the project that needs explaining.
Could further work be postponed for a few years until the whole thing is looked at from top to bottom? It just sounds mad at the moment.
 

hoipolloi

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If PWC were going to actually produce a report that would be made public (unlikely if accurately carried out) they might want, as people reportedly with some auditing experience, to check the quantity surveying element where steel joists and concrete panels were specified in certain amounts necessary for the building, then check the invoicing of same to see whether the amounts ordered and delivered to site match even remotely.

My bet is that there is a lot more materiel being ordered and 'disappearing' from the site than was specified in the quantity surveyor's estimates.

PwC should be able to manage that. QS/Purchasing/Delivery and a stocktake. Betting that would reveal a few issues.


That’s an intriguing perspective on the financial overruns with regard to this project. Many possibilities come to mind …

BAM are the people involved in this construction. Had a look at their web site. Seems there are three phases to their operation:

To quote from their web page –

“BAM are involved in 3 projects for the New Children’s Hospital
1. NCH Enabling Works at James’s Hospital Campus
2. NCH Main Works at St James’s Hospital Campus
3. NCH Satellite Hospitals at Blanchardstown and Tallaght “

Perhaps there’s been a “mix-up” and invoices for TOTAL costs of materials and services “inadvertently” issued THREE times. Thus total costs would be three times those estimated. A simple error, made by a distracted book-keeper, who innocently lodged the ongoing-payments into an account, the auditors, in due course, ticking off the invoices coinciding with the payments made.

Any more suggestions?

New Childrens Hospital (NCH) - BAM Ireland
 

brughahaha

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There is a massive scandal to be unearthed here I think. 'Consultants' creaming off millions from the public purse.

This is insane... 4 times the original projected cost.
Biggest scandal is the real reasons for the site choice IMO ...and the rush to ensure it was at James so vested interests wouldn't have to suffer the indignity of working on the Northside at either the Mater or Blanch
 


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