Scandal of New Children's Hospital Spending overrun - will Harris resign? Of course not

Lumpy Talbot

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
27,112
Twitter
No
Actually, come to think of it I drew up a list of five reputable companies working in the relevant field, drew up a matrix on a spreadsheet with columns denoting ways of assessing the companies- price, scope, proposed approach to the work, experience and a column for additional notes.

Of the five, one had recently withdrawn from that sector, of the four remaining two were very expensive and aimed at the wrong end of the data I wanted, of the remaining two after that the slightly costlier of the two offered more flexibility with the data and showed a better understanding of what the job was so they got it.

We've budgeted for this sort if work so I know that the third party company I'm working with know what they are doing, what we want and how we want to see it and I am in full control of any costs which are all in the specifications and if there are any secondary costs for examining sections of the data more closely I know what that will cost and how much I can spend there without endangering the budget.

I do not know how on earth the principles that work at the thousands of pounds level can be so wobbly at the hundreds of millions and billions stage of spending public money. It seems to have been bloody loose all 'round.
 


hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,193
they did not bring slave labour to Liverpool in the last few years to build a state of the art hospital a at roughly 25% of room cost of ours .
You're not comparing like with like. Much of the more complex stuff in Liverpool will be brought to GOSH in London. The NCH in Dublin will be doing that stuff itself.

Then again they dont have Fine Gael trying to enrich their friends
Care to distinguish your opinion with anything as squalid as actual evidence? No, of course not.
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,193
Mick Wallace.


Mr Wallace said “if the Government stops now, which you are allowed to do according to the terms of the contract, and retenders you could save in the region of €500 million”.

The Government should opt “for a re-measurable contract rather than stick with a fixed price contract which will cost a lot more than €1.7 billion”. It was a big problem for the Government and “right now for [main contractor] BAM it is like picking apples in an orchard”.

The Wexford TD said the Government should look at the legal process and the “conflict of interest between the board and the legal firm involved”.

Fixed price contracts did not suit a job such as the construction of the hospital. “That gives unbelievable potential to the contractor to get extra money as it goes.”
Let's not forget that Wallace's ideas of efficiency include dodging VAT and employee pension contributions, before we start lionising him.
 

Lumpy Talbot

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
27,112
Twitter
No
Comparing 'like with like' is an interesting concept where we are apparently to spend 1.4 billion on a children's hospital in an area which is unconvincing as a suitable location, without helicopter access, with known issues around traffic already.

Even basic comparisons on what was produced versus cost at Liverpool, Birmingham and Glasgow shows that there is something deeply wrong with the costs around this project in Dublin.
 

belcoo666

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
656
You're not comparing like with like. Much of the more complex stuff in Liverpool will be brought to GOSH in London. The NCH in Dublin will be doing that stuff itself.



Care to distinguish your opinion with anything as squalid as actual evidence? No, of course not.
Of course we are not comparing like with like , one was built in record time under budget and is functioning properly .
This mess is and was created by Fine Gael
learn to take some responsibility for your mess
 

RasherHash

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
24,240
There is a massive scandal to be unearthed here I think. 'Consultants' creaming off millions from the public purse.

This is insane... 4 times the original projected cost.
Indeed, we'll find out all about it in ten or twenty years time, when the current wasters are out to pasture having had a life creaming it at the expense of the taxpayer 😠
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,193
Comparing 'like with like' is an interesting concept where we are apparently to spend 1.4 billion on a children's hospital in an area which is unconvincing as a suitable location, without helicopter access, with known issues around traffic already.

Even basic comparisons on what was produced versus cost at Liverpool, Birmingham and Glasgow shows that there is something deeply wrong with the costs around this project in Dublin.
It's not "without helicopter access", and you know that full well. If you actually want people to discuss this with you, it'll help if you get your facts right.
 

hiding behind a poster

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2005
Messages
48,193
Of course we are not comparing like with like , one was built in record time under budget and is functioning properly .
This mess is and was created by Fine Gael
learn to take some responsibility for your mess
No, we're not comparing like with like because the hospitals are in different cities, with different labour costs, different spec requirements, different construction issues, and so on.
 

brughahaha

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
15,406
Let's not forget that Wallace's ideas of efficiency include dodging VAT and employee pension contributions, before we start lionising him.
And lets remember Regina Doherty making illegal payments to herself before leaving creditors including the Irish Taxpayer , high and dry ....... at least Wallace isnt a minister
 

brughahaha

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
15,406
No, we're not comparing like with like because the hospitals are in different cities, with different labour costs, different spec requirements, different construction issues, and so on.

You are quite possibly the only absolute fanatic, absolute zealot , craven loyalist , i think possibly even in FG , not to consider thie administration of the building of the childrens hospital an absolute cluster fook ...if you'd been a japanese soldier you'd have come running out of the jungle , gun firing shouting "Long live the emperor"......... in 1950

God help your family .........because there is no way you are anymore rational or less fanatically zealous in real life ...i can only imagine the difficulty and frustration in living with that
 

belcoo666

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
656
You are quite possibly the only absolute fanatic, absolute zealot , craven loyalist , i think possibly even in FG , not to consider thie administration of the building of the childrens hospital an absolute cluster fook ...if you'd been a japanese soldier you'd have come running out of the jungle , gun firing shouting "Long live the emperor"......... in 1950

God help your family .........because there is no way you are anymore rational or less fanatically zealous in real life ...i can only imagine the difficulty and frustration in living with that
He is probably one of the idiots that young Fine Gael briefed with questions to send in to Newstalk when Michael Martin was on it the other day . Fine Gael never were very bright , whats coming through their ranks now seem to be even dimmer .
 

fat finger

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2016
Messages
2,139
He is probably one of the idiots that young Fine Gael briefed with questions to send in to Newstalk when Michael Martin was on it the other day . Fine Gael never were very bright , whats coming through their ranks now seem to be even dimmer .
Hiding Behind is not young Fine Gael at all.
I'll wager he's been around a while and was even in government (as minister), not mentioning names mind
 

belcoo666

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
656
Hiding Behind is not young Fine Gael at all.
I'll wager he's been around a while and was even in government (as minister), not mentioning names mind
i hope your wrong ,
if that has been a minster other than in his school play then this country is in much worse situation than i would have thought possible
 
D

Deleted member 34656

Better than interlocking committees designed to dodge responsibility. A Sinn Fein TD after a public hearing said she couldn't tell who was in charge.
I believe the PWC investigation failed to establish this also.
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,882
Fixed price contracts did not suit a job such as the construction of the hospital. “That gives unbelievable potential to the contractor to get extra money as it goes.”
Wallace is a bankrupt commercial developer, he may know more about office building than other TDs but he is not an expert on managing large complex projects. The new project head, Fred Barry has a background in managing pharma and Intel projects and successfully changed the NRA so that their projects came in under budget. My opinion is that the model for building a hospital has more in common with an industrial project than a commercial office or shopping mall.
 
D

Deleted member 34656

Don't bite the hand that feeds you by embarrassing the government over its cavalier attitude to taxpayers' money.
We don’t know that the government was cavalier, do we?

There was no cost benefit analysis carried out.

If the original tenders had come in at 1.43b, should the project have gone ahead?
 

wombat

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
32,882
There was no cost benefit analysis carried out.

If the original tenders had come in at 1.43b, should the project have gone ahead?
How do you do a cost benefit analysis of a children's hospital? Would you try and estimate mortality rates between building or not building? They do this kind of analysis when deciding whether to fund expensive drugs and it causes no end of grief for patients. The idea that you can estimate the cost of a new hospital on a cost/square metre is daft. It may be reasonable for a budget estimate but a budget estimate needs a large +/- 30% uncertainty attached. Note that the uncertainty in an estimate is not the same as a project contingency.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top