• Due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software, some users were "banned" when they tried to change their passwords at the end of February. This does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you were affected by this, please us viua the Contact us link in the footer.

Scheiß - Ryanair has got it's weights wrong.


Nebuchadnezzar

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
10,794
Whether by design or accident Ryanair have been underdeclaring the weight of their aircraft to the German authorities thereby resulting in an underpayment of airport landing charges. Whilst there is no safety implication involved, Boeings certified maximum operating weights were not exceeded, I must admit that I have indulged in a certain amount of schadenfreude on hearing this story having been done over several times at check in over the weight of my bag.

www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article112111642/Ryanair-soll-beim-Gewicht-geschummelt-haben.html - Translator

http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article112111642/Ryanair-soll-beim-Gewicht-geschummelt-haben.html
 
Last edited:


gijoe

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
15,366
Boeing certifies a MTOW for an aircraft model. However the airport charges are generally taken as the MTOW as specified in the specific aircraft manual and Boeing will specify a lower MTOW at the purchasers request which reduces airport charges but also limits (on paper only) the aircrafts range.

Boeing 737-800's that Ryanair fly have an MTOW of I think circa 75 tonnes however I think all Ryanair 738's are certified at MTOW 68 tonnes. As Ryanair does not fly sectors over 4 hours then the 68 tonne limit is no big deal as it can carry the maximum passengers plus the fuel for the longest likely journey a Ryanair plane is likely to make. Airport charges are partially based on a departure charge per tonne so each departure saves 7 tonnes of charges for a purely paperwork MTOW.
 
Last edited:

dresden8

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
14,936
Jaysus, a post that is factual.

The ryanair crowd should be calling for facts of this one to be suppressed.

Unless it's true in which case we can expect full and frank exposure.
 

Nebuchadnezzar

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
10,794
Boeing certifies a MTOW for an aircraft model. However the airport charges are generally taken as the MTOW as specified in the specific aircraft model and Boeing will specify a lower MTOW at the purchasers request which reduces airport charges but also limits (on paper only) the aircrafts range.

Boeing 737-800's that Ryanair fly have an MTOW of I think circa 75 tonnes however I think all Ryanair 738's are certified at MTOW 68 tonnes. As Ryanair does not fly sectors over 4 hours then the 68 tonne limit is no big deal as it can carry the maximum passengers plus the fuel for the longest likely journey a Ryanair plane is likely to make. Airport charges are partially based on a departure charge per tonne so each departure saves 7 tonnes of charges for a purely paperwork MTOW.
No big deal at all except for the airport operators who have not been paid correctly. So Ryanair wont mind if my baggage is a couple of kilos more than I say it is then? No extra charge? Grand so.
 

kimari

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2011
Messages
858
Twitter
dont like it
No big deal at all except for the airport operators who have not been paid correctly. So Ryanair wont mind if my baggage is a couple of kilos more than I say it is then? No extra charge? Grand so.
you wish dont be supprised if one day ryanair start charging extra for different body weights
 

dresden8

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
14,936
Anyway. They're supportin malpractices ryanair don't do. they're entirley off the books. From mow on fnck them.
 

gijoe

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
15,366
No big deal at all except for the airport operators who have not been paid correctly.
But they have been paid correctly! Ryanair's Boeing's are certified with a MTOW of 67 tonnes as per the user manual for the aircraft. This means that the Captain cannot take a load beyond that when you include the OEW (operating empty weight) plus the passengers, their baggage and the fuel load. But this is only a paper MTOW as with just a change in the operation manual for the aircraft by Boeing can extend its MTOW to 75 tonnes.

PS Ryanair plus other airlines periodically weigh their passengers and their baggage on random flights to get correct averages. Most airlines generally take an average of 110 kgs per person but I think that Ryanair's is 106 kgs because of the reduced baggage people are carrying.
 

Boy M5

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
21,729
@ gijoe why do the German's think that they have a case against Ryanair then? In simple terms Isn't this simply a difference over declared weights?
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
222,748
Whether by design or accident Ryanair have been underdeclaring the weight of their aircraft to the German authorities thereby resulting in an underpayment of airport landing charges. Whilst there is no safety implication involved, Boeings certified maximum operating weights were not exceeded, I must admit that I have indulged in a certain amount of schadenfreude on hearing this story having been done over several times at check in over the weight of my bag.

www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article112111642/Ryanair-soll-beim-Gewicht-geschummelt-haben.html - Translator

Flugsicherheit : Ryanair soll beim Gewicht geschummelt haben - Nachrichten Wirtschaft - DIE WELT
Oh Lord, I do hope they tell them to go stand in the corner and they'll deal with them later.

Couldn't happen to a nicer airline.
 

YongHoi

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 21, 2011
Messages
666
Actual Take Off Weights are a matter of record. Legal record.
The authorities only have to ask for copies of the Loadsheets for the year and pore over them.
If they're found to have been cheating they'll be caught red handed, which could be very expensive indeed.
Time will tell.
How ironic though, if Ryanair were to be hit with massive retrospective overweight charges. A hollow laugh will ring across the nation....
 

Nebuchadnezzar

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
10,794
But they have been paid correctly! Ryanair's Boeing's are certified with a MTOW of 67 tonnes as per the user manual for the aircraft. This means that the Captain cannot take a load beyond that when you include the OEW (operating empty weight) plus the passengers, their baggage and the fuel load. But this is only a paper MTOW as with just a change in the operation manual for the aircraft by Boeing can extend its MTOW to 75 tonnes.

PS Ryanair plus other airlines periodically weigh their passengers and their baggage on random flights to get correct averages. Most airlines generally take an average of 110 kgs per person but I think that Ryanair's is 106 kgs because of the reduced baggage people are carrying.
As far as I know this practice of adjusting the declared MTOW (Max Take Off Weight), which is fairly common industry practice, does not involve the manufacturer. It is a matter for the operator and the overseeing authority. The manufacturers certified max weights are fixed upper limits.

Perhaps this is just a matter of misunderstanding but I'd be suprised if the German authority was not familiar with practice and its legal workings. They clearly feel that Ryanair warrants an investigation in their interpretation of the rules.
 

Analyzer

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 14, 2011
Messages
46,187
The implications of this are massive.

From now on fat people will have to pay a surcharge....
 

Boy M5

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2010
Messages
21,729
Actual Take Off Weights are a matter of record. Legal record.
The authorities only have to ask for copies of the Loadsheets for the year and pore over them.
If they're found to have been cheating they'll be caught red handed, which could be very expensive indeed.
Time will tell.
How ironic though, if Ryanair were to be hit with massive retrospective overweight charges. A hollow laugh will ring across the nation....
Thanks for the simplified explanation.
I knew this was not an issue of safety rather cute hoorism / gombeenism.
 

Gurdiev

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
7,239
Boeing certifies a MTOW for an aircraft model. However the airport charges are generally taken as the MTOW as specified in the specific aircraft manual and Boeing will specify a lower MTOW at the purchasers request which reduces airport charges but also limits (on paper only) the aircrafts range.

Boeing 737-800's that Ryanair fly have an MTOW of I think circa 75 tonnes however I think all Ryanair 738's are certified at MTOW 68 tonnes. As Ryanair does not fly sectors over 4 hours then the 68 tonne limit is no big deal as it can carry the maximum passengers plus the fuel for the longest likely journey a Ryanair plane is likely to make. Airport charges are partially based on a departure charge per tonne so each departure saves 7 tonnes of charges for a purely paperwork MTOW.
Well I trust they are charged a hefty penalty for each undeclared tonne, and that the fine is backdated as necessary.

Show no mercy to this merciless operator !
 

Gurdiev

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
7,239
I hope they are made to publicly weigh one of their planes , while all the other airlines stand around cheering .
 
D

Deleted member 17573

MTOW is only one of the inputs into the calculation of airport charges. Others include noise and emissions and turnaround times. The latter would be a significant factor in the case of Ryanair.
 

Howya

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 29, 2012
Messages
1,690
you wish dont be supprised if one day ryanair start charging extra for different body weights
Will the airheads fly free?:)
 

Hand of Abbadon

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
373
This is bad news for all Ryanair fliers ( I am not one of them) because O Leary will bung any additional charges on to the passenger. Be careful what you wish for!
 

gijoe

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
15,366
@ gijoe why do the German's think that they have a case against Ryanair then? In simple terms Isn't this simply a difference over declared weights?
They don't have a case as long as the users manual for the aircraft specifies an MTOW of 67 tonnes. Just because Boeing can come along at Ryanair's request to increase that MTOW to 75 tonnes by simply updating the manual is immaterial as the Captain cannot take a load that goes beyond the specified MTOW by regulations.
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top