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Schengen Information System to be scrapped??


barrym

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214
The Register reports to-day (Jan 19) -

"An upgrade to the database that allows members of the EU's open borders agreement to exchange security information could soon be scrapped, even though €28m has already been spent on the project.

The future of the delayed Schengen Information System II (SIS II) is in doubt according to a meeting of home affairs ministers in Prague yesterday, EUobserver reports.

Czech interior minister Ivan Lager said: "[Either] we dismantle all the problems, the SIS II works, and there is a fixed date when [the upgrade work is] over. Or, at the end of our presidency, the result will be that the problems are so serious that we have to follow the contingency plan."

A "contingency plan" is currently being drawn up. The Czech Republic took over presidency of the Council of the European Union this month and will hold it until the end of June.

The Schengen zone covers all EU member states, except the UK and Ireland, and recent accession nations Romania and Bulgaria. Non-EU members Iceland, Norway and Switzerland are also included. Citizens from Schengen countries are able to cross borders without passport checks.

Agreed in 2002, SIS II was intended to expand the types of data on travellers that Schengen states could exchange, to include fingerprints and photgraphs as well as passport numbers. But the project has hit major technical problems, and in 2007 new EU member states were invited to join the old database instead.

Now some ministers are publicly questioning whether the further €40m earmarked for SIS II would be good money after bad. Austria's interior minister Maria Fekter said: "It is unacceptable to put money into developing this if the future of the project is not clear."

Peter Hustinx, the EU's data protection supervision, has been critical of the potential privacy implications of SIS II and EU immigration technology projects."

The irony of this is, if the II version is scrapped, Ireland will have a legislative situation where, as a non-member of Schengen, we have a more onerous data collection requirement for travellers than the Schengen countries.
Also, I wonder, in the light of their present economic circumstances, whether the UK will go ahead with their e-borders project. It is certain that we won't go ahead with our participation, isn't it?

Bye, Barry
 

Factorem

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Good. I hope it's the first of many more Big Brother projects to bite the dust.
 

FutureTaoiseach

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The Register reports to-day (Jan 19) -

"An upgrade to the database that allows members of the EU's open borders agreement to exchange security information could soon be scrapped, even though €28m has already been spent on the project.

The future of the delayed Schengen Information System II (SIS II) is in doubt according to a meeting of home affairs ministers in Prague yesterday, EUobserver reports.

Czech interior minister Ivan Lager said: "[Either] we dismantle all the problems, the SIS II works, and there is a fixed date when [the upgrade work is] over. Or, at the end of our presidency, the result will be that the problems are so serious that we have to follow the contingency plan."

A "contingency plan" is currently being drawn up. The Czech Republic took over presidency of the Council of the European Union this month and will hold it until the end of June.

The Schengen zone covers all EU member states, except the UK and Ireland, and recent accession nations Romania and Bulgaria. Non-EU members Iceland, Norway and Switzerland are also included. Citizens from Schengen countries are able to cross borders without passport checks.

Agreed in 2002, SIS II was intended to expand the types of data on travellers that Schengen states could exchange, to include fingerprints and photgraphs as well as passport numbers. But the project has hit major technical problems, and in 2007 new EU member states were invited to join the old database instead.

Now some ministers are publicly questioning whether the further €40m earmarked for SIS II would be good money after bad. Austria's interior minister Maria Fekter said: "It is unacceptable to put money into developing this if the future of the project is not clear."

Peter Hustinx, the EU's data protection supervision, has been critical of the potential privacy implications of SIS II and EU immigration technology projects."

The irony of this is, if the II version is scrapped, Ireland will have a legislative situation where, as a non-member of Schengen, we have a more onerous data collection requirement for travellers than the Schengen countries.
Also, I wonder, in the light of their present economic circumstances, whether the UK will go ahead with their e-borders project. It is certain that we won't go ahead with our participation, isn't it?

Bye, Barry
No it is not certain - the govt has made no such assertion. I don't recall the Irish govt complaining about it. In fact, only a few weeks ago the Irish govt told the press that an electronic database was being introduced here to find out who is overstaying visas in this country (reported in Tribune I think).
 

Mr. Woodchuck

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Schengen..here is is 2017..and it is a difficult task to get an answer in writing to this question..it's like no one wants to address the issue..so, I'll give it a go here. As an Irish Citizen who has been in the Schengen since May of 2015 traveling and staying with friends and renting flats short term, I have overstayed the 90/180 Schengen rule within the E.U. (I never had a visa, I am 64, retired, access to funds and have travel insurance which will repatriate me if I am ill.) I know I have violated the laws in the countries I have stayed longer than 90/180 days in, but as there is no passport control moving about the Schengen, I have not had a problem. I plan on visiting Portugal for a week or less as I wind down my travels, and from there, fly back to Ireland. I know that I have a right to go into and out of the Schengen at will and can not be arrested or detained or forced to miss my flight, (according to the Irish Foreign Office website)but as the only violation as far as Portugal is concerned will be the Schengen violation, what can I expect? I can find nothing anywhere about an Irish Citizen having any problems. thanks.
 

gleeful

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Schengen..here is is 2017..and it is a difficult task to get an answer in writing to this question..it's like no one wants to address the issue..so, I'll give it a go here. As an Irish Citizen who has been in the Schengen since May of 2015 traveling and staying with friends and renting flats short term, I have overstayed the 90/180 Schengen rule within the E.U. (I never had a visa, I am 64, retired, access to funds and have travel insurance which will repatriate me if I am ill.) I know I have violated the laws in the countries I have stayed longer than 90/180 days in, but as there is no passport control moving about the Schengen, I have not had a problem. I plan on visiting Portugal for a week or less as I wind down my travels, and from there, fly back to Ireland. I know that I have a right to go into and out of the Schengen at will and can not be arrested or detained or forced to miss my flight, (according to the Irish Foreign Office website)but as the only violation as far as Portugal is concerned will be the Schengen violation, what can I expect? I can find nothing anywhere about an Irish Citizen having any problems. thanks.
Irish passport - then don't worry about it. All is fine.
 

Spanner Island

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Feb 22, 2011
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Schengen..here is is 2017..and it is a difficult task to get an answer in writing to this question..it's like no one wants to address the issue..so, I'll give it a go here. As an Irish Citizen who has been in the Schengen since May of 2015 traveling and staying with friends and renting flats short term, I have overstayed the 90/180 Schengen rule within the E.U. (I never had a visa, I am 64, retired, access to funds and have travel insurance which will repatriate me if I am ill.) I know I have violated the laws in the countries I have stayed longer than 90/180 days in, but as there is no passport control moving about the Schengen, I have not had a problem. I plan on visiting Portugal for a week or less as I wind down my travels, and from there, fly back to Ireland. I know that I have a right to go into and out of the Schengen at will and can not be arrested or detained or forced to miss my flight, (according to the Irish Foreign Office website)but as the only violation as far as Portugal is concerned will be the Schengen violation, what can I expect? I can find nothing anywhere about an Irish Citizen having any problems. thanks.
You're an Irish/EU citizen? You've a valid Irish/EU passport? If yes you've nothing to worry about.

Schengen is an arrangement within the EU... just like the €uro... but the EU trumps both...

Ireland opted out of Schengen because the UK did... but we still have the right to travel to and live and work in all EU countries and will continue to for as long as we remain members of the EU... or for as long as the EU lasts.

I may be wrong but the only difference I can make out is that we have to show our passports when travelling to EU countries (other than to the UK) whereas if you travel between countries within Schengen any form of valid photo ID will suffice...
 

gleeful

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You're an Irish/EU citizen? You've a valid Irish/EU passport? If yes you've nothing to worry about.

Schengen is an arrangement within the EU... just like the €uro... but the EU trumps both...

Ireland opted out of Schengen because the UK did... but we still have the right to travel to and live and work in all EU countries and will continue to for as long as we remain members of the EU... or for as long as the EU lasts.

I may be wrong but the only difference I can make out is that we have to show our passports when travelling to EU countries (other than to the UK) whereas if you travel between countries within Schengen any form of valid photo ID will suffice...
Not sure about this one. Each country has its own rule on internal ID requirements. Technically in most EU states you need to carry your ID card at all times (So passport or passport card for Irish people). I've never seen this enforced though.
 
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Schengen..here is is 2017..and it is a difficult task to get an answer in writing to this question..it's like no one wants to address the issue..so, I'll give it a go here. As an Irish Citizen who has been in the Schengen since May of 2015 traveling and staying with friends and renting flats short term, I have overstayed the 90/180 Schengen rule within the E.U. (I never had a visa, I am 64, retired, access to funds and have travel insurance which will repatriate me if I am ill.) I know I have violated the laws in the countries I have stayed longer than 90/180 days in, but as there is no passport control moving about the Schengen, I have not had a problem. I plan on visiting Portugal for a week or less as I wind down my travels, and from there, fly back to Ireland. I know that I have a right to go into and out of the Schengen at will and can not be arrested or detained or forced to miss my flight, (according to the Irish Foreign Office website)but as the only violation as far as Portugal is concerned will be the Schengen violation, what can I expect? I can find nothing anywhere about an Irish Citizen having any problems. thanks.
What 90/180 rule?
 

Mr. Woodchuck

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Des, the official law is that Irish (E.U.) can leave to go into the Schengen for only 90 days within a 180 day period. Moving from country to country doesn't effect the 90 days...It is apparently not enforced .. I just don't want to get hit with fine on the way back to Ireland. The same is true for Schengen members..but there is no passport control..but leaving the Schengen coming back into Ireland there is, and they CAN fine you..but again..it seems that it doesn't happen.
 
Last edited:

gleeful

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Des, the official law is that Irish (E.U.) can leave to go into the Schengen for only 90 days within a 180 day period. Moving from country to country doesn't effect the 90 days...It is apparently not enforced .. I just don't want to get hit with fine on the way back to Ireland. The same is true for Schengen members..but there is no passport control..but leaving the Schengen coming back into Ireland there is, and they CAN fine you..but again..it seems that it doesn't happen.
After 90 days they can ask you to prove you have the means to support yourself and/or are looking for a job. Thats it.
 
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Des, the official law is that Irish (E.U.) can leave to go into the Schengen for only 90 days within a 180 day period. Moving from country to country doesn't effect the 90 days...It is apparently not enforced .. I just don't want to get hit with fine on the way back to Ireland. The same is true for Schengen members..but there is no passport control..but leaving the Schengen coming back into Ireland there is, and they CAN fine you..but again..it seems that it doesn't happen.
That is the law? Show me.
 
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After 90 days they can ask you to prove you have the means to support yourself and/or are looking for a job. Thats it.
No they can't.
 
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Tell me how that works. Do they deport you?

Please point me to the specific legislation.
 
Joined
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Des, the official law is that Irish (E.U.) can leave to go into the Schengen for only 90 days within a 180 day period. Moving from country to country doesn't effect the 90 days...It is apparently not enforced .. I just don't want to get hit with fine on the way back to Ireland. The same is true for Schengen members..but there is no passport control..but leaving the Schengen coming back into Ireland there is, and they CAN fine you..but again..it seems that it doesn't happen.
There is a difference between freedom of movement and Schengen. There is absolutely no restriction on your movement within the EU if you are a citizen of the EU. The 90/180 rule applies only to non-EU citizens.

Maybe you can point me to this "official law".

In the meantime I should point out that I have barely spent 90 days in Ireland in the last twelve or so years. My passports are very well-thumbed as I us one or other of them on a weekly basis. In all of the hundreds of times I've used them I've never once been asked about duration of stay.
 

barrym

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I think that the OP on this part of the thread is mixing up 'residence' with Schengen. Usual residence is a tax related matter, there is a requirement that if you are more than 180 days in a Member State (and have so-called economic connection there) then you pay tax there.
In reality, this supposed "rule" is bollox, it is completely contrary to the principal of free movement. My tax advisor says there is an unwritten agreement between the tax authorities not to refer any cases of the 180 day rule to the courts on the grounds it will be referred to the European Court and thrown out.

Recently a scam by O'Brien and his likes that they left Dublin airport at 11.45 and came back at midnight thirty, thus not being in Ireland on that day, was closed.

One thing you need to worry about regarding foreign residence is inheritance. Some countries, France for example, don't allow you to leave all your assets to someone specific, or the cat! There is a rule book about who gets what, including your wife....The way around it is to make a will in the country where you have assets saying your 'residence' is in country x and your inheritance is covered by the law there.

As to Schengen, when the brits leave we should join Schengen, requiring the UK to set up and pay for the controls. If we weren't such wimps vis a vis the brits we should have joined Schengen when it started.
BTW, the common travel area UK-RoI was an administrative convenience set up in the 1920s by the brits because there were too many people who would be entitled to an Irish passport in the UK at the time.
 

im axeled

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No it is not certain - the govt has made no such assertion. I don't recall the Irish govt complaining about it. In fact, only a few weeks ago the Irish govt told the press that an electronic database was being introduced here to find out who is overstaying visas in this country (reported in Tribune I think).
with all the grand schemes announced since 2011, this should have been at the top of the que
 

barrym

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I've never once been asked about duration of stay.
Quite, it is, in effect, impossible to police. Passports are no longer stamped.

If the revenue think you are "tax travelling" they can try to stick you to show you have a residence and esb bills etc., where you say you are tax resident.....Bit of a joke, especially if they ask Apple to prove anything about their tax arrangements. ;)
 

gleeful

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Tell me how that works. Do they deport you?

Please point me to the specific legislation.
Movement and residence - European Commission

From the Lisbon Treaty: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:12012E/TXT&from=EN

Article 6: EU citizens can reside on the territory of another EU country for up to three months without any conditions other than the requirement to hold a valid identity card or passport;

Article 7: To reside in another EU country for more than three months, EU citizens are required to meet certain conditions depending on their status (i.e. worker, student, etc.) and may also be required to meet certain administrative formalities;
 
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