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School caretakers the new mental Heath professionals in our schools


Texal Tom

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One of the first moves Ruari Quinn makes during his time in education is to virtually dismantle the guidance counselling service in our schools. These are largely a group of trained Counsellors and many qualified to work as professional Counsellors most were regular attendees at skills based workshops run by many off the specialised mental health national bodies. To the bin they go and the many years of experience and training....

Mr Quinns bright idea is the caretakers will now step up to the mark and even the ladies in the canteen need to get the finger out and shoulder to the wheel!

Is this madness or am I missing something?

For me it would be like minister Reilly making a declaration that our hospitals would no longer have nursing staff and the care assistants, cleaners and anyone who happens to be in the area to roll up the sleeves and give a dig out...

Now caretakers and canteen staff are all very decent people but if my child is having mental health problems I don't want anyone other than a highly trained and experienced professional to meet with her

I now have no confidence in minister Quinn to develop and reform Ireland education system - maybe he should ask one of the cleaners in Dáil Éireann to guide him!
 

Bobcolebrooke

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One of the first moves Ruari Quinn makes during his time in education is to virtually dismantle the guidance counselling service in our schools. These are largely a group of trained Counsellors and many qualified to work as professional Counsellors most were regular attendees at skills based workshops run by many off the specialised mental health national bodies. To the bin they go and the many years of experience and training....

Mr Quinns bright idea is the caretakers will now step up to the mark and even the ladies in the canteen need to get the finger out and shoulder to the wheel!

Is this madness or am I missing something?

For me it would be like minister Reilly making a declaration that our hospitals would no longer have nursing staff and the care assistants, cleaners and anyone who happens to be in the area to roll up the sleeves and give a dig out...

Now caretakers and canteen staff are all very decent people but if my child is having mental health problems I don't want anyone other than a highly trained and experienced professional to meet with her

I now have no confidence in minister Quinn to develop and reform Ireland education system - maybe he should ask one of the cleaners in Dáil Éireann to guide him!
They never were proper Counsellors in the Schools to begin with!
 

firefly123

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It's a horse manure panic measure and very obviously made up by a committee.
As if staff werent looking out for the kids and then getting them to the guidance counsellor in the past!
 

Texal Tom

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They never were proper Counsellors in the Schools to begin with!
Most actually are 'proper' Counsellors. The training is a one year full time grad dip and you need to be a qualified teacher with 5 yrs experience to go on the course. Many have masters and also many have completed professional training which entails receiving 100 hrs of personal therapy - and are registered Counsellors who in fact do private work.
 

Bobcolebrooke

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Most actually are 'proper' Counsellors. The traing is a one year full time grad dip. Many have masters and also many have completed and are registered Counsellors who in fact do private work.
That is not a proper qualification for dealing with people with mental health problems
 

Mr. Bumble

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Only because they were not given the full time hours unless it was a big school.
They're not fully trained counsellors. They do have some training in counselling but their prime purpose is career guidance.
 

44percent

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Quinn's comments today are contemptible. The man who cuts counseling services follows up with this. And expects schools already overburdened with bureaucracy to deal with another recording exercise. It's the most cynical exercise of a Minister in years; Reilly has simply ham fisted blundering but Quinn has shown contempt for people listening to him. Resignation matter, again.
 

Mr. Bumble

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Most actually are 'proper' Counsellors. The traing is a one year full time grad dip. Many have masters and also many have completed and are registered Counsellors who in fact do private work.
Some may have but being a qualified counsellor/psychotherapist/psychologist is not necessary to be a guidance counsellor.
 

RobertW

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Is therea link?

Quinn the revolutionary reformer of the education system . . . .
 

bluefirelog

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I'd like to read a report of what the decision is that was taken. Is there a link?
 

Texal Tom

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Some may have but being a qualified counsellor/psychotherapist/psychologist is not necessary to be a guidance counsellor.
True but many is more accurate as opposed to some. The training is still rigerous and involves studying all the major schools of therapy as well as min of 10 hrs of personal counselling

Would it not have been a better response to the crisis in youth mental health to insist that all guidance Counsellors must go that extra step and become therapists and facilitated this in some way instead of dismantling the service?
 

damus

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wombat

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Would it not have been a better response to the crisis in youth mental health to insist that all guidance Counsellors must go that extra step and become therapists and facilitated this in some way instead of dismantling the service?
No, mental health issues need to be addressed by medical doctors, we have too many quacks as it is.
 

damus

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True but many is more accurate as opposed to some. The training is still rigerous and involves studying all the major schools of therapy as well as min of 10 hrs of personal counselling

Would it not have been a better response to the crisis in youth mental health to insist that all guidance Counsellors must go that extra step and become therapists and facilitated this in some way instead of dismantling the service?
Well, if I had a suicidal kid I'd want someone who done more than 10 hours practical supervision - I'd also want someone who's at least a qualified psychologist as a basic minimum.
 

Mr. Bumble

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True but many is more accurate as opposed to some. The training is still rigerous and involves studying all the major schools of therapy as well as min of 10 hrs of personal counselling

Would it not have been a better response to the crisis in youth mental health to insist that all guidance Counsellors must go that extra step and become therapists and facilitated this in some way instead of dismantling the service?
Well to become a counselling psychologist, for instance, takes a primary psychology degree then a two year masters then a period of accreditation before being fully qualified.

I have no doubt they have some counselling training, but they are not fully trained. I think they have/had a role in supporting students but not in attending to mental health difficulties or serious life events. However for Quinn to equate them with caretakers is simply ludicrous.
 

RobertW

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Would the caretaker have to be registered with the teaching council to have any association with a student with respect to their mental health?
 

GrainneDee

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One of the first moves Ruari Quinn makes during his time in education is to virtually dismantle the guidance counselling service in our schools. These are largely a group of trained Counsellors and many qualified to work as professional Counsellors most were regular attendees at skills based workshops run by many off the specialised mental health national bodies. To the bin they go and the many years of experience and training....

Mr Quinns bright idea is the caretakers will now step up to the mark and even the ladies in the canteen need to get the finger out and shoulder to the wheel!

Is this madness or am I missing something?

For me it would be like minister Reilly making a declaration that our hospitals would no longer have nursing staff and the care assistants, cleaners and anyone who happens to be in the area to roll up the sleeves and give a dig out...

Now caretakers and canteen staff are all very decent people but if my child is having mental health problems I don't want anyone other than a highly trained and experienced professional to meet with her

I now have no confidence in minister Quinn to develop and reform Ireland education system - maybe he should ask one of the cleaners in Dáil Éireann to guide him!
I could h ardly believe what I was hearing from Kathleen Lynch this morning. Apart from having no conception of what guidance teachers actually do, it seems that cleaning ladies, caretakers and ordinary teachers are going to expected to become experts in guidance, and, when a vulnerable and troubled troubled young person comes to them, to drop whatever they are doing and spend an hour or two counselling them.

Instead of sending them to the expert who is fully trained and who has the time to deal with them properly...

Nuts.
 

RobertW

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Feb 11, 2011
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I could h ardly believe what I was hearing from Kathleen Lynch this morning. Apart from having no conception of what guidance teachers actually do, it seems that cleaning ladies, caretakers and ordinary teachers are going to expected to become experts in guidance, and, when a vulnerable and troubled troubled young person comes to them, to drop whatever they are doing and spend an hour or two counselling them.

Instead of sending them to the expert who is fully trained and who has the time to deal with them properly...

Nuts.
This is what passes for policy when you have gobshïtes who don't know what they're doing.
 
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