School Patronage and Abuse Report

FrankSpeaks

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Mary Rafferty the producer of Cardinal Sins in her contribution to last nights Prime Time program on the "Report by Commission of Investigation into Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin" quite rightly pointed out that many of those given unfavourable mentions in the report are currently serving as School Patrons.

This scandal and unsafe practice cannot be allowed to continue. We must review religious patronage of schools and IMHO the state must take over.
 


harvey

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If the Catholic education system bothers you so much, you should do us all a favour and send your kids elsewhere.
 

FrankSpeaks

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If the Catholic education system bothers you so much, you should do us all a favour and send your kids elsewhere.
Very insightful response!:confused:
 

Mitsui2

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If the Catholic education system bothers you so much, you should do us all a favour and send your kids elsewhere.
You mean the Catholic education system paid for partly by his taxes and to which the State may very well not offer him a meaningful alternative?

You want a Catholic education system, you pay for one. I don't want one, but I'm paying for one. Spot the difference. It's all a bit like NAMA, really.
 

Cato

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If the Catholic education system bothers you so much, you should do us all a favour and send your kids elsewhere.
Well, in fairness ...
 
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Cato

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You talk as if Catholics don't pay any tax.
He didn't imply that at all. You're reading that into what he said in order to make your point. A poor move. Do try harder.
 

nbgb

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If the Catholic education system bothers you so much, you should do us all a favour and send your kids elsewhere.
Does it not bother you in any way that the patrons of the vast majority of primary schools in the country (over 3200 of the 3600) have been revealed as explicity and systemically involved in the cover up of child abuse?
 

Skrynesaver

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Can we just ignore the trolls, if someone has a legitimate argument by all means engage them, but don't let trolls derail the thread.

I agree thoroughly, we need to truly separate church and state, the education system is the obvious place to start and the notion that bishops censured in this report are patrons of schools funded from our taxes is obscene
 
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You talk as if Catholics don't pay any tax.
I live in the country and have no choice but a Catholic school, even though there has been zero investment by the Church in it - the land was donated by the local Protestant landowner.

A local Community school designates itself multi denominational, though it has a Christian ethos - again without a red cent from any local Church.

Just because a deist pays taxes doesn't give them the right to impose their morals on others - last time I checked the State was secular with a nominal majority of it's citizens willing to believe in some superstition in their spare time. Personally I gave up believing in Santa a long time ago.
 

Mitsui2

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Nonsense. Any group of like-minded people is free to establish a school and apply for state funding. This happens in the case of Educate Together. It also applies to Protestant, Muslim and Jewish groups.

The push to remove Catholic influence from schools predates any child abuse report and is part of a much wider political agenda which wants the imposition of a secular religion. It's "the State knows best" mentality.
Disgraceful that so many are willing to use the misfortune of children to pursue their own agenda.

But, for the record, the Catholic Church removing itself from mainstream education might not be a bad thing - it's what's waiting to take its place that would worry me.
You know, sometimes I think that an Irish Catholic education wouldn't be such a bad thing if they introduced classes in simple logic. But then words like turkeys, Christmas and voting come to mind, so I guess it's unlikely.
 

FrankSpeaks

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Nonsense. Any group of like-minded people is free to establish a school and apply for state funding. This happens in the case of Educate Together. It also applies to Protestant, Muslim and Jewish groups.

The push to remove Catholic influence from schools predates any child abuse report and is part of a much wider political agenda which wants the imposition of a secular religion. It's "the State knows best" mentality.
Disgraceful that so many are willing to use the misfortune of children to pursue their own agenda.

But, for the record, the Catholic Church removing itself from mainstream education might not be a bad thing - it's what's waiting to take its place that would worry me.
I think its disgraceful of you to imply that I am using the misfortune of children to pursue my own agenda, I have been consistent in looking for this change since I started posting on P.ie.

If parents want their kids indoctrinated in their religion then it should be done outside school hours and let them pay for it.
 

rant_and_rave

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Mary Rafferty the producer of Cardinal Sins in her contribution to last nights Prime Time program on the "Report by Commission of Investigation into Catholic Archdiocese of Dublin" quite rightly pointed out that many of those given unfavourable mentions in the report are currently serving as School Patrons.

This scandal and unsafe practice cannot be allowed to continue. We must review religious patronage of schools and IMHO the state must take over.
Won't happen. Look at the other Anglo-Celtic countries. OZ, UK, US, NZ. They all have subsidised faith schools that run in parallel to the state system. Parents want choice and governments want to get elected.

Incidentally, does anyone know when the last child sex abuse case occurred in any school in Ireland.
 

Baron von Biffo

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last time I checked the State was secular with a nominal majority of it's citizens willing to believe in some superstition in their spare time. Personally I gave up believing in Santa a long time ago.
You should check again my friend.

One cannot become President or a judge without swearing a religious oath. The Dáil starts its proceedings each day with a prayer. The national broadcaster interrupts its broadcasting twice a day to facilitate a religious ritual. We all pay for the schools but they are overwhelmingly controlled by religious groups. A teacher can be sacked if her sex life doesn't meet with the approval of a religious patron who facilitates paedophiles.

Even in death there's no escape as most of the cemetery's are owned by the churches and the authorities ensure they have no competition.

Ireland is most definitely not a secular state.
 

marmurr1916

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Does it not bother you in any way that the patrons of the vast majority of primary schools in the country (over 3200 of the 3600) have been revealed as explicity and systemically involved in the cover up of child abuse?
The Boards of Management of most national schools in Ireland are chaired by the local parish priest.

How many of these priests were/are either involved directly in child abuse or were/are aware of (or suspect) child abuse but haven't reported to the HSE/Gardaí?

All patrons (prospective or actual) of all schools should be required to undergo background checks and prove that their organisations follow adequate and appropriate child protection policies.

All members of school boards of management, including the chairs, should be subject to background checks and should have to undergo training in child protection.

All persons who were aware of/suspected child abuse but failed to report it to the appropriate state authorities should be barred from being patrons/members of school boards of management.
 

Glenshane2

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Because some of us have a concern for the welfare of all the children of the state, not just our own. Some of these patrons, and the institutional church, have demonstrated that they cannot be trusted with the welfare of children.
Could the State be trusted with the safety of Catholic children? Can you guarantee that the State would not allow any Catholic child to be taught by an anti-Catholic teacher?
 


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