Scrooge Budget leads to Happy Xmas For Loan Sharks

Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
1,742
With Christmas only a couple of weeks away, and the only comment from Brian (Lips) Cowen being "Bah Humbug", how are those with children going to cope with demands from their youngsters for more and more expensive gifts. I suspect what will happen is that an awful lot of people who are already in a state of virtual fiscal collapse, will head out to the money-lenders and money lending companies, in order to give their kids what they asked for. This in turn will of course lead to more and more depression hitting those who are already finding things difficult, those thousands of families who are in danger of losing their homes, those who have lost jobs in the last year, seeing no hope for the future and then the "feck them all anyway"mentality sets in and loans are secured, at appalling interest rates, not from banks but from loan sharks.

The fear that these families feel must be terrible. The worry unbearable, but for the sake of the children, Christmas has to go on as if nothing has happened and Santa is still expected. I think that especially because we had the "boom" years that we will feel the loss of income even more, and how do you explain to a child that the toy you promised them is now not coming? You can't and so you borrow.

The one thing this Godforsaken Government can do is plaster post offices and community buildings, libraries and suchlike with information about M.A.B.S. so that at least people who get in well over their heads have information to hand which shows where help can be found and advice given. M.A.B.S. give an excellent service, free, counselling you on your debts, your budget and giving you legal advice.

This matter is really worrying and I am so afraid for those who will not be able to manage the stress of no job, loss of home, and no hope on offer for the future. I hope all those out there who made a "killing" in the boom years on the backs of p.a.y.e. workers are prepared to see the further consequences of their ambition and hope that more killings will not be the end result.
 


mryoungdan

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Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
244
I spoke of this before and believe me I am not a fan of the Welfare State.

However that extra few bob was always intended for this purpose even if left unsaid.

As usual they kick the poor where they are most vunerable.

700 million for overseas aid and 50 million to the polacks for a cloud of carbons--no problemo. 5 million for desperate people---- no money but suck on a few carbon taxes.

There is no doubt in my mind that there will be people swinging themselves as a result of this
 

sakhee

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Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
453
I'm not sure if you think the taxpayers should be asked to fund other people's Christmas present buying but I don't see how we could have come up with money out of thin air to give to people in time for their Christmas shopping.If I buy any presents at all this year it will be something extremely low cost and I don't expect a handout to help me.

I'm afraid we are now at the stage where parents need to be cruel to be kind.People spending money they don't have on unnecessary luxuries are only causing themselves and their families more damage.Time to face reality and keep the wallets closed, harsh as that sounds.Most of us bemoan the fact the Government squandered money we did have while we were all doing the same ensuring we had the latest car model, bigger houses and top of the range games consoles, laptops etc.We certainly cannot afford to squander money we don't have.Time for the young ones to get a good and useful dose of the reality of boom and bust economics at work I'd say.While tough on Christmas Day there should be long term benefits such as a welcome return to input=output.
 

piano

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Nov 28, 2009
Messages
3
I don't mean to be a scrooge myself but I really have very little sympathy for people who go to loan sharks. We should all have learned a lesson about debt from this crisis and everyone will have to just say no to their kids this christmas. It's an awful thing to have to do but it's worse than owing to some fella money on a huge interest rate
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
1,742
Apart from mryoungdan the other two contributors are typical of the unfeeling, uncaring attitude of people who have never known a day's want in their lives. It is typical that they not only have no understanding of what its like to be constantly stuck in the poverty trap, but these selfish unfeeling creatures do not even try to learn how and why so many people are in such a bad situation.

I am not talking of a few hundred people here. I am talking of hundreds of thousands of people. In the small town where I live 17 business in the town and on the industrial estate have gone bust. Mothers and Fathers are out of work now. There are no jobs available, none. But sod them! Right? Make it even rougher for them. Take more money off them just in case they may have a worry free day.

There's a thread on here that is called Are the Irish Pragmatic or just apathetic? Well, that really depends on how much money you have, or how well paid you are and more importantly still, how safe your job is, now doesn't it?
Do you know why we will never have a revolution or any sort of revolt against the thieving, lying pack of vultures who have taken our money, yes, our money, because there are too many sellf-satisfied, smug bastards around who make the social welfare recipients feel that they are worthless, that their children are worthless, so the fight is knocked out of the poor bloody quick by their fellow brothers and sisters. Hah! And those who have managed to drag themselves out of the poverty trap do not want it ever known that they were ever in that placeI, and so unlike the rich, the poor do not stand together.

Its interesting to see a Fine Gaeler leaping to the support of a Fiann Fáil budget, isn't it? Makes one wonder about who to vote for in the next G.E.


God, I hate smug, snobby gits. I really do.
 

Spacewagon

Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2006
Messages
41
Apart from mryoungdan the other two contributors are typical of the unfeeling, uncaring attitude of people who have never known a day's want in their lives. It is typical that they not only have no understanding of what its like to be constantly stuck in the poverty trap, but these selfish unfeeling creatures do not even try to learn how and why so many people are in such a bad situation.

I am not talking of a few hundred people here. I am talking of hundreds of thousands of people. In the small town where I live 17 business in the town and on the industrial estate have gone bust. Mothers and Fathers are out of work now. There are no jobs available, none. But sod them! Right? Make it even rougher for them. Take more money off them just in case they may have a worry free day.

There's a thread on here that is called Are the Irish Pragmatic or just apathetic? Well, that really depends on how much money you have, or how well paid you are and more importantly still, how safe your job is, now doesn't it?
Do you know why we will never have a revolution or any sort of revolt against the thieving, lying pack of vultures who have taken our money, yes, our money, because there are too many sellf-satisfied, smug bastards around who make the social welfare recipients feel that they are worthless, that their children are worthless, so the fight is knocked out of the poor bloody quick by their fellow brothers and sisters. Hah! And those who have managed to drag themselves out of the poverty trap do not want it ever known that they were ever in that placeI, and so unlike the rich, the poor do not stand together.

Its interesting to see a Fine Gaeler leaping to the support of a Fiann Fáil budget, isn't it? Makes one wonder about who to vote for in the next G.E.


God, I hate smug, snobby gits. I really do.
You may as well vote for the Shinners Lazarus, right or wrong, they do at least try to promote policies looking after the less well off.

FG would be a disaster in Government in my opinion. Nice people, terrible politics.
 

Panopticon

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Joined
May 27, 2009
Messages
5,575
I don't want to pay for some kid getting a ridiculously over-priced lump of Chinese plastic just because his parents have bought him ridiculously over-priced Chinese plastic every other year when they were receiving imaginary money.
 
B

Boggle

Apart from mryoungdan the other two contributors are typical of the unfeeling, uncaring attitude of people who have never known a day's want in their lives. It is typical that they not only have no understanding of what its like to be constantly stuck in the poverty trap, but these selfish unfeeling creatures do not even try to learn how and why so many people are in such a bad situation.

I am not talking of a few hundred people here. I am talking of hundreds of thousands of people. In the small town where I live 17 business in the town and on the industrial estate have gone bust. Mothers and Fathers are out of work now. There are no jobs available, none. But sod them! Right? Make it even rougher for them. Take more money off them just in case they may have a worry free day.

There's a thread on here that is called Are the Irish Pragmatic or just apathetic? Well, that really depends on how much money you have, or how well paid you are and more importantly still, how safe your job is, now doesn't it?
Do you know why we will never have a revolution or any sort of revolt against the thieving, lying pack of vultures who have taken our money, yes, our money, because there are too many sellf-satisfied, smug bastards around who make the social welfare recipients feel that they are worthless, that their children are worthless, so the fight is knocked out of the poor bloody quick by their fellow brothers and sisters. Hah! And those who have managed to drag themselves out of the poverty trap do not want it ever known that they were ever in that placeI, and so unlike the rich, the poor do not stand together.

Its interesting to see a Fine Gaeler leaping to the support of a Fiann Fáil budget, isn't it? Makes one wonder about who to vote for in the next G.E.


God, I hate smug, snobby gits. I really do.
All he said was that people should have learned by now that they shouldn't go to loan sharks. Thats sense not snobbery.

I've f all money for Christmas this year but, I'll manage with what I have. Its NOT nice - no-one said it was but when the sh1t hits the fan, you just have to be practical. That goes double when you have children.
 

Flimflam

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Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
312
Getting involved with loan sharks is a mad thing to do, even more so if you are using the money to buy luxuries. Parents just have to learn to say no to their kids. You hear this same thing every year at holy communion time, parents HAVING to go to moneylenders to pay for the dress, tiara etc. Being a parent is about being responsible and sometimes that involves making tough decisions. Going to a moneylender jeopardizes the safety of your entire family. What happens if you miss a couple of payments? What happens next Christmas when you're even poorer and still paying of this year's loan? Borrow more?
 

sakhee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
453
Genuis Lazarus.Right now I barely have two brass farthings to rub together and as I said it is highly unlikely I will be buying any presents at Christmas time.I suppose the fact that I don't want a handout that will further increase our national debt, that actually must be paid back, makes me uncaring.I have had plenty of times in my life that were extremely difficult financially but you know what: I did what I had to do to survive.That meant making sacrifices, denying myself purchases of anything over the basics.This is, I'm afraid, what people have to do.

I don't like the fact that people are suffering because of the recession and suffering more because of elitist greed, corruption and now the third budget to hurt us.I don't like that I am struggling myself.I also am one of a few who despised earlier FF giveaway budgets which fuelled the spiralling cost of living which has us in the mess we are today.Sure enough the social welfare and other allowances were shockingly poor back in the 80's/90's but from the late nineties the increases were reckless and we now have a situation where the social welfare is too high and cannot be reduced significantly.*

* By too high I am purely talking in face value terms rather than real value when factoring in the cost of living.If we were sensible mature people with a sensible mature Government our costs of living would not have spiralled, extra tax revenue could have been funnelled into making our services better as well as banking some of the excess.Instead we spend like crazy the second we get our greedy paws on the dollars and our Government are the same as they p-ssed away money on ensuring the property market spiralled out of control.Unfortunately this has all left us in a situation where all the money is gone, along with the means of creating more and people have to suffer for it.

Now please give us your plan to keep public expenditure under control while at the same time giving everybody some seasonal assistance so they can purchase some more unnecessary Christmas presents.
 

Middleaged

Active member
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
219
With Christmas only a couple of weeks away, and the only comment from Brian (Lips) Cowen being "Bah Humbug", how are those with children going to cope with demands from their youngsters for more and more expensive gifts. I suspect what will happen is that an awful lot of people who are already in a state of virtual fiscal collapse, will head out to the money-lenders and money lending companies, in order to give their kids what they asked for. This in turn will of course lead to more and more depression hitting those who are already finding things difficult, those thousands of families who are in danger of losing their homes, those who have lost jobs in the last year, seeing no hope for the future and then the "feck them all anyway"mentality sets in and loans are secured, at appalling interest rates, not from banks but from loan sharks.

The fear that these families feel must be terrible. The worry unbearable, but for the sake of the children, Christmas has to go on as if nothing has happened and Santa is still expected. I think that especially because we had the "boom" years that we will feel the loss of income even more, and how do you explain to a child that the toy you promised them is now not coming? You can't and so you borrow.

The one thing this Godforsaken Government can do is plaster post offices and community buildings, libraries and suchlike with information about M.A.B.S. so that at least people who get in well over their heads have information to hand which shows where help can be found and advice given. M.A.B.S. give an excellent service, free, counselling you on your debts, your budget and giving you legal advice.

This matter is really worrying and I am so afraid for those who will not be able to manage the stress of no job, loss of home, and no hope on offer for the future. I hope all those out there who made a "killing" in the boom years on the backs of p.a.y.e. workers are prepared to see the further consequences of their ambition and hope that more killings will not be the end result.
Santa will still come this year, as the budgetary measures only come into affect from Jan 1....

We snobby people have a brain... and we use it... try it...
 

imokyrok

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Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
4,490
I'm pretty grateful that the last of my three children has passed the age of believing in Santa as it is easier to explain that Mum and Dad can't afford xyz than explain that Santa can't - especially when they see Santa can manage those expensive items for other children. I have every sympathy for parents who are struggling to maintain the illusion of Santa and not dissapoint their children. It is a huge pressure which drives some parents to take actions which will come back to haunt them. Loansharking used to be a terrible scourge in poorer areas. I hope it's not making a major reappearance.

When it comes to communion I've less sympathy. Little girls look far nicer in a white simple dress than they do in expensive merengues and fussy accessories. Better still pick an Educate Together school and you can skip the whole farce completely.
 
B

Boggle

I'm pretty grateful that the last of my three children has passed the age of believing in Santa as it is easier to explain that Mum and Dad can't afford xyz than explain that Santa can't - especially when they see Santa can manage those expensive items for other children. I have every sympathy for parents who are struggling to maintain the illusion of Santa and not dissapoint their children. It is a huge pressure which drives some parents to take actions which will come back to haunt them. Loansharking used to be a terrible scourge in poorer areas. I hope it's not making a major reappearance.

When it comes to communion I've less sympathy. Little girls look far nicer in a white simple dress than they do in expensive merengues and fussy accessories. Better still pick an Educate Together school and you can skip the whole farce completely.
Listen, ruining a childs xmasamongst the most horrible thoughts I can imagine. I doubt anyone could deny it but it does not justify going to loan sharks - little Jimmy might have gotten his X-box, but what good is it if you cannot afford to feed him or pay the electricity bills? That is just selfish cowardice.

I'm all on for helping those in trouble. But pretending that they will be FORCED into the hands of loan sharks will get no sympathy from the rest of us.
 

yehbut_nobut

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Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
520
It's obvious reading a lot of the comments here that many posters have little or no idea what life is like in the real world.

Sorry, but the people who go to loan sharks aren't the types who sit around pontificating on internet chatrooms.

I know this sounds patronising, but most often they type of person loan sharks feed on is of limited education and has little or no numerical or mathmatical ability, and lacks even basic reasoning skills to work out what is a good deal and what isn't.

A loan shark turns up at the front door (and they do cold call, in estates all over the country) waving a hundreds of euro saying "would you like this? you only have to pay it back at €30 or €40 a week," The first their victims think won't be "can I afford it?" or "whats the interest rate" or even "How much are the total repayments."

They think "€500. That will replace the money dad drank last week / That will help pay for the funeral of my brother who OD'd / That will give the kids a nice Christmas," or whatever this weeks problem is that they think money will solve.

They don't realise of course the payments will continue for years, and of course there's always the "top-up" to drag them back down if there ever is any actual hope of a loan being paid off. Often they do end up realising the problem their in, but by the lesson is learned too late.

Yes, people have to take responsibility for their own actions. But as a society, what do we do about those who simply lack skills for this level of responsibility. Do we just turn away and continue to allow others to exploit their weakness?
 

Middleaged

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Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
219
It's obvious reading a lot of the comments here that many posters have little or no idea what life is like in the real world.

Sorry, but the people who go to loan sharks aren't the types who sit around pontificating on internet chatrooms.

I know this sounds patronising, but most often they type of person loan sharks feed on is of limited education and has little or no numerical or mathmatical ability, and lacks even basic reasoning skills to work out what is a good deal and what isn't.

A loan shark turns up at the front door (and they do cold call, in estates all over the country) waving a hundreds of euro saying "would you like this? you only have to pay it back at €30 or €40 a week," The first their victims think won't be "can I afford it?" or "whats the interest rate" or even "How much are the total repayments."

They think "€500. That will replace the money dad drank last week / That will help pay for the funeral of my brother who OD'd / That will give the kids a nice Christmas," or whatever this weeks problem is that they think money will solve.

They don't realise of course the payments will continue for years, and of course there's always the "top-up" to drag them back down if there ever is any actual hope of a loan being paid off. Often they do end up realising the problem their in, but by the lesson is learned too late.

Yes, people have to take responsibility for their own actions. But as a society, what do we do about those who simply lack skills for this level of responsibility. Do we just turn away and continue to allow others to exploit their weakness?
And the point is?....
 

SAHM

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
43
It's obvious reading a lot of the comments here that many posters have little or no idea what life is like in the real world.

Sorry, but the people who go to loan sharks aren't the types who sit around pontificating on internet chatrooms.

I know this sounds patronising, but most often they type of person loan sharks feed on is of limited education and has little or no numerical or mathmatical ability, and lacks even basic reasoning skills to work out what is a good deal and what isn't.

A loan shark turns up at the front door (and they do cold call, in estates all over the country) waving a hundreds of euro saying "would you like this? you only have to pay it back at €30 or €40 a week," The first their victims think won't be "can I afford it?" or "whats the interest rate" or even "How much are the total repayments."

They think "€500. That will replace the money dad drank last week / That will help pay for the funeral of my brother who OD'd / That will give the kids a nice Christmas," or whatever this weeks problem is that they think money will solve.

They don't realise of course the payments will continue for years, and of course there's always the "top-up" to drag them back down if there ever is any actual hope of a loan being paid off. Often they do end up realising the problem their in, but by the lesson is learned too late.

Yes, people have to take responsibility for their own actions. But as a society, what do we do about those who simply lack skills for this level of responsibility. Do we just turn away and continue to allow others to exploit their weakness?
And society should pay for pay for people who couldn't be bothered going to school or helping themselves to decide whether something is the right thing to do?

Limited education or no numerical or math ability is an excuse not a reason. People know without having to do any math work etc that loansharks are bad news.

If Dad continues to drink the money it's time to get rid of Dad. The right decision is not usually the easiest decision.

The state gives a grant that covers a basic dignified funeral to those on social welfare, so no money should be needed to bury their nearest and dearest.

As for Xmas. Spend what you can afford. This crap of giving kids everything their hearts desire only leads to heartache. My kids write a list of things the length of their arm with things that cost a bomb to things that cost a euro, they have no idea what Santa will bring and are hugely excited every year and its not for the large amount of money being spent on presents.

Save the bleeding heart stories. If you continuously give people hand outs they will never learn to fend for themselves. I realise there is a lot of tears being shed in Irish homes this Xmas and people are grieving for their losses but this is the new reality and people need to get past the grief and start dealing realisticly with their problems. Going to loansharks is not the answer.
 

mryoungdan

Active member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
244
You may as well vote for the Shinners Lazarus, right or wrong, they do at least try to promote policies looking after the less well off.

FG would be a disaster in Government in my opinion. Nice people, terrible politics.
You know Spacewagon, as a right wing libertarian ron paul nut. I have concluded the very same thing

Shin Fein at least are not Me Fein
 

Middleaged

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Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
219
And society should pay for pay for people who couldn't be bothered going to school or helping themselves to decide whether something is the right thing to do?

Limited education or no numerical or math ability is an excuse not a reason. People know without having to do any math work etc that loansharks are bad news.

If Dad continues to drink the money it's time to get rid of Dad. The right decision is not usually the easiest decision.

The state gives a grant that covers a basic dignified funeral to those on social welfare, so no money should be needed to bury their nearest and dearest.

As for Xmas. Spend what you can afford. This crap of giving kids everything their hearts desire only leads to heartache. My kids write a list of things the length of their arm with things that cost a bomb to things that cost a euro, they have no idea what Santa will bring and are hugely excited every year and its not for the large amount of money being spent on presents.

Save the bleeding heart stories. If you continuously give people hand outs they will never learn to fend for themselves. I realise there is a lot of tears being shed in Irish homes this Xmas and people are grieving for their losses but this is the new reality and people need to get past the grief and start dealing realisticly with their problems. Going to loansharks is not the answer.
You really are a shining light...truly a shining light... my admiration, is just that....

Please write that book....
 

Flimflam

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Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
312
But as a society, what do we do about those who simply lack skills for this level of responsibility. Do we just turn away and continue to allow others to exploit their weakness?
What do you think we should do? Give them some money to buy presents?
 

SAHM

Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
43
You really are a shining light...truly a shining light... my admiration, is just that....

Please write that book....
So I assume you too believe that 400K jobs are going to magically appear in the next 12 months and it will be back to business as usual? So society should put a false bottom under everything cause it will all be ok next Christmas? So go and get yourselves into more debt and live on the never never?

I'm not saying it's not harsh but I believe it is wrong to give people false hope that will lead them further into debt.
 


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