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SDLP calls for immediate talks to restore NI powersharing


rem81

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Plurality then. And they do run things over there.
Furthermore the people who vote Labour, Lib Dems and Green Party wouldn't welcome them either. Between them they represent a large majority of Scottish people.
Ulster unionists are an unloved bunch due to their hard line image. A bit unfair on liberal moderate unionists I know, but they are out-shouted by the extremist loud mouths. :)

At the end of the day the Scottish parliament does not have immigration controls. I understand your point and Im not trying to disagree with you mate, but I honestly believe that they would settle over there for the very simple fact that it's their ancestral home and they have great links.

You are right that the SNP wouldnt be great fans of them, but they still have the legal right to settle in Scotland as British/eu citizens. Therefore the objection of some nationalists wouldn't be able to stop them. Their culture while outmoded is much more common to Scotland than England. They fly the saltire of Scotland in loyalist ghettoes. Their accents are quite similar along with slang. They call themselves and their language Ulster-Scots. These huns have grown up their entire lives flying union jacks and supporting the queen and Britain. I have no doubt they would go over to Britain if there was reunification, and most would settle in Scotland specifically. The huge surplus of staunch unionists would likely have a major political effect on the country as well imo.
 


Newrybhoy

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Plurality then. And they do run things over there.
Furthermore the people who vote Labour, Lib Dems and Green Party wouldn't welcome them either. Between them they represent a large majority of Scottish people.
Ulster unionists are an unloved bunch due to their hard line image. A bit unfair on liberal moderate unionists I know, but they are out-shouted by the extremist loud mouths. :)
 

raetsel

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At the end of the day the Scottish parliament does not have immigration controls. I understand your point and Im not trying to disagree with you mate, but I honestly believe that they would settle over there for the very simple fact that it's their ancestral home and they have great links.

You are right that the SNP wouldnt be great fans of them, but they still have the legal right to settle in Scotland as British/eu citizens. Therefore the objection of some nationalists wouldn't be able to stop them. Their culture while outmoded is much more common to Scotland than England. They fly the saltire of Scotland in loyalist ghettoes. Their accents are quite similar along with slang. They call themselves and their language Ulster-Scots. These huns have grown up their entire lives flying union jacks and supporting the queen and Britain. I have no doubt they would go over to Britain if there was reunification, and most would settle in Scotland specifically. The huge surplus of staunch unionists would likely have a major political effect on the country as well imo.
Obviously, as things stand they couldn't do anything to stop them re-settling there. But they'd be cold-shouldered.
 

rem81

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Obviously, as things stand they couldn't do anything to stop them re-settling there. But they'd be cold-shouldered.
I've been to England before and before all this DUP Brexit nonsense there weren't even many people who knew that NI was still in the UK. No joke I was in London on the tube and most of the Englishmen didn't even know they were still over here. I've also chatted with a Welsh lass who was a bit of a friend and tried to argue that we weren't part of the United Kingdom, and I had to prove that NI was considered part of the UK. She was in her thirties as well and patriotic to some extent.

It's so bizarre that the unionists are so staunch yet before Brexit most Brits didnt even know that UI was part of their country.
 

raetsel

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Nationalism is sooooooo last century.
You could well have accidentally stumbled upon a very good point there.
The vote in favour of Brexit was the ultimate expression of extremist British nationalism and it has had a profound effect on the opinions of many people here. It may well explain the massive shift of opinion in NI in favour of a united Ireland in order to continue to enjoy membership of the European Union, which of course is the world's first mass democratic project aimed at achieving international harmony in Europe.
 

raetsel

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I've been to England before and before all this DUP Brexit nonsense there weren't even many people who knew that NI was still in the UK. No joke I was in London on the tube and most of the Englishmen didn't even know they were still over here. I've also chatted with a Welsh lass who was a bit of a friend and tried to argue that we weren't part of the United Kingdom, and I had to prove that NI was considered part of the UK. She was in her thirties as well and patriotic to some extent.

It's so bizarre that the unionists are so staunch yet before Brexit most Brits didnt even know that UI was part of their country.
I go to London fairly often and the sort of people I meet on my visits there are young well-educated liberals, friends of my son's, who are appalled by Brexit, and who invariably despise and hold in complete contempt everything the DUP stand for.
 

rem81

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I go to London fairly often and the sort of people I meet on my visits there are young well-educated liberals, friends of my son's, who are appalled by Brexit, and who invariably despise and hold in complete contempt everything the DUP stand for.
The real Brits and the imperialist colonists are not the same... the loyalists are something out of the 19th century. The tories laugh at them and view them as idiots but use them against Labour.
 

raetsel

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I'm well aware of the distrust of the SNP among older Scottish Labour supporting-Catholics (Galloway may no longer support Labour of course but he still has that mindset) but I think it is now very much a minority, and rather paranoid viewpoint. Galloway is a spokesman for himself and no one else.
However if you are in any doubt as to how Ulster unionists are generally viewed in Scotland just look at the way their intervention, and that of the OO in the 2014 referendum was shunned and rejected by the pro-union side.
 

Glenshane4

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"ten percent of marriages are mixed you numpty."

I disapprove of miscegenation. And your resort to personal abuse is a sign of a defeated argument.

"you insist the solution to this hatred is continuing the hatred and bigotry"

The Bible advises "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth."

"instead of education integration..... because you claim that there will be discrimination."

Can you prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that Catholic children and teachers would get fair play in schools which are not controlled by Catholics?

"you are no doubt an OAP loon who lked the likes of de valera.... who turned most of this island into a sectarian backwater basketcase for several decades."

Sorry, I cannot comment on that observation. I never lived in a country ruled by De Valera. Why are you so angry? Where are your manners?

"why are you against the unification of our island anyway?"

I have reason to fear that, in a United Ireland, you Staters would pander to the Prods and the Catholic people of what is now Northern Ireland would be walked over by Prods and Staters. Can you prove that this would not happen?
 
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Antóin Mac Comháin

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'An dara hadhbhar as nach iongnadh iomad focal do bheith ionann san Bhreathnais is san Ghaedhilg, gion gurab ón m-Breatain tángadar mic Mhíleadh i n-Éirinn, do bhrígh gur bh'í Éire fá cúil dídin do Bhreathnaibh ré linn gach leathtruim da luigheadh orra, do bhíthin na Rómhánach is na Sacsanach nó gach druinge oile da n-imreadh foirneart orra, ionnus go dtigdís foirne iomdha go n-a muirear is go n-a muinntearaibh is go n-a maoin ar teitheadh i n-Éirinn díobh, go dtugdaois uaisle na h-Éireann fearann ar feadh a gcuarta dhóibh; agus an sliocht tigeadh uatha ré linn a ndeoraidheachta, do fhoghlamthaoi an Ghaedhealg leo, agus go bhfuilid bailte i n-Éirinn ainmnighthear uatha mar atá Gráig na m-Breathnach is Baile na m-Breathnach is Dún na m-Breathnach &c;

Gidheadh is éidir go fírinneach a rádh go ndeachadar drong do shliocht Bhreoghain a h-Éirinn d'áitiughadh na Breatan Móire, mar atá cuid do shliocht na dtaoiseach do chlannaibh Breoghain táinig lé macaibh Míleadh i n-Éirinn.' - Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar Éirinn

'The second reason why it is not strange that many words are the same in Irish and in Welsh, without supposing the sons of Milidh to have come to Ireland from Britain, is that Ireland was a place of refuge for Britons whenever they suffered persecution from the Romans or the Saxons, or from any other races that oppressed them, so that large companies of them, with their families and followers, and with their wealth, used to fly for refuge to Ireland; and the Irish nobles used to give them land during their stay; and the children they had during their time of exile used to learn Irish, and there are townlands in Ireland named from them, as Graig na mBreathnach, Baile na mBreathnach, Dun na mBreathnach, etc.; .

It may, however, be stated with truth that a company of the race of Breoghan went from Ireland to settle in Great Britain, to wit, some of the descendants of the chiefs of the race of Breoghan who came with the sons of Milidh to Ireland.' - The History of Ireland Geoffrey Keating

Do you think the first people arrived in Ireland from Britain in 1609? Really.

You haven't been keeping up with this 800 years of oppression mantra very well, have you?
I think it's more likely that the 17th century colonists shared a common ancestry with the Brigantes of Spain, or the people Keating refers to in the extract above as the 'sons of Milidh', and there was a lot more to'ing and fro'ing in the ancient world than we currently realize, and the people who inhabited it, were a lot more organized and advanced than we give them credit for. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the people described by Caesar as having a superior navy to the Roman Empire, had the ability to ship vast amounts of people and large quantities of goods and were on the move more often than not, and certainly more often than we realize, if not continuously. For example: Flick a long-boat on its head, stick a few poles around the edges, and voilá, you have a long-house.

The land in Ireland was owned by the royalty such as it was, not the peasants.
OK, but there was a very thin-line between a peasant and a royal, insofar as anyone from within five generations of the family could run for election as rí, and we know from the historical records that the position of high-king wasn't passed from father to son. Hence why Muirchertach Ua Briain who was succeeded by Toirdelbach Ua Conchobair who was succeeded by Muirchertach Mac Lochlainn who was succeeded by Ruaidrí Ua Conchobair, the last of the high-kings, came from different families and different corners of Ireland, as did all of the high-kings, stretching all the way back through the semi-historical, Goidelic and Milisean periods, and the influence of some historical Irish high-kings such as Diarmait mac Maíl na mBó, stretched as far as the Hebrides, the Isle of Mann, Wales and parts of England. I think it was James Connolly who said the high-king was little more than the managing director of the land, which he described in greater detail in Labour in Irish History as communally owned.

The plantation of Ulster commenced in 1609. The first Europeans landed on the North American mainland over a hundred years earlier, or 600 years earlier if you include the brief Norse settlement on Newfoundland.
There's a 600 year gap between the Norse settlement in Newfoundland and the reign of Muirchertach Mac Lochlainn, and my understanding of the term Norse is that it represents Scandinavians. The point being that Lochlainn being the Gaelic name for Scandinavians, Pre-Norman Gaelic Ireland favored a rotating system of governance between Gael and Gall, with a recognizable head-of-state. It was the titular changes in governance that were made earlier, which separated the 17th century plantation from the others.

Nobody is denying unionists their right to remain in Ireland. We are simply asking you to respect the will of the majority of the island's population.
If the majority vote for unity outside of the UK, by sheer definition, there will no longer be any unionists. Catholics and Protestants can share power in a UK Assembly, in the same way they can share power anywhere. It's moronic to claim that Republicans and Unionists can do the same thing, which I think is why Nationalists who sit in the 6 County Assembly have never been designated as Republicans.
 
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Antóin Mac Comháin

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You could well have accidentally stumbled upon a very good point there. The vote in favour of Brexit was the ultimate expression of extremist British nationalism and it has had a profound effect on the opinions of many people here. It may well explain the massive shift of opinion in NI in favour of a united Ireland in order to continue to enjoy membership of the European Union, which of course is the world's first mass democratic project aimed at achieving international harmony in Europe.
It's certainly how I read the Independents Vote in England, but the shift could also be due to a generation gap. The 26 Counties became a fully Independent Republic, 28 years after the Treaty, and there appears to be parallels between that process, and the process underway in the 6 Counties, although I won't be surprised if people revert to form at the next elections, it seems that the union is withering in the same way, and that it will ultimately end with a whisper, with hardly anyone noticing that they lost their majority at the recent local elections.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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After the local elections there was a lot of political commentary on SF coming under pressure to go back into Stormont (despite 70% of nationalists endorsing their policy).

Jim Gibney in yesterday’s Irishnews has put such suggestions to bed. He states SF will achieve the rights enjoyed throughout the rest of Ireland and Britain for the people of the north. The talks can not drag on and should they fail, SF will focus on a Post Stormont set up. Namely some form of joint rule and greater powers to local councils while they campaign for a border poll.

It would appear the DUP are entering the last chance to have a genuine power sharing administration at Stormont, I don’t expect them to take it - with failure comes an onus on both governments to outline the way forward. That won’t include Stormont according to Jim Gibney and I welcome that. Chain the doors shut once these talks fail.
The unionist majority is gone at local level with the loss of 33 seats, and the vote projected onto a GE, vote would have returned 10-13 SF and Alliance Party candidates. The loss of 1500 Tory and UKIP council seats, doesn't leave the DUP much room to wriggle, unless they radically re-invent themselves, in a similar manner to their predecessors in the south. FF and FG will be content to share power with either of them, so long as they don't make major inroads in the south, for the simple reason that the numbers won't stack up for them maintaining power. It's supposed to be ironic, but it's not really, that the DUP would be preferable to SF. Chaining the doors on Stormont is one thing, but be careful what you wish for, as 'joint-authority' could very well amount to London in Dublin, with Republicanism very much on the outside..
 

Glenshane4

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Catholicism and Protestantism is done for most people because religion is not considered important to most. most people barely even attend mass or sunday service.
If you really believe that, why did you insinuate that Lyra McKee deserved to be
killed because she had left the Catholic Church and joined the Church of Ireland?
 

Roll_On

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Well it's like this,
We seen Theresa May proceed with a deal that she couldn't sell to her own party and we seen how that worked out for them.
The Unionist people do not want an Irish language act forced on them. There are far better ways to improve the uptake of the Irish language than forcing it on people who don't want it.
Man changed against his will remains a disbelievers still.
With your Petition of concern going the way of the dodo, why does it even matter what your people want?
 

Roll_On

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The Irish invaded Britain many times throughout history but that is conveniently forgotten about.
And despite this, Ireland isn't trying to annex Liverpool, despite holding an ethnic majority there. Denmark isn't claiming Dublin as a Danish enclave, despite probable ethnic majority.

It's strange you think that the descendant of an Irish immigrant arriving in America in the nineteenth century has more right to be there than a Scottish one living in Ireland from the seventeenth century or even before.
It's not that they don't have a right to be there now, it's that they don't have a right to prevent recognition of their language, or their rights to marry and so on.
 

Newrybhoy

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And despite this, Ireland isn't trying to annex Liverpool, despite holding an ethnic majority there. Denmark isn't claiming Dublin as a Danish enclave, despite probable ethnic majority.
Have you figures for your " ethnic majority" in Liverpool ?


It's not that they don't have a right to be there now, it's that they don't have a right to prevent recognition of their language, or their rights to marry and so on.
A language relatively no one speaks yet receives countless millions in funding already.

I'll happily have a free vote on the gay marriage.
 

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