Sea Ice - arctic melting, antarctic same as 1900, headlines focus on the melt

McTell

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The end of the world will be the floods when all the ice melts, right?

East of Dublin 8 will be like Venice, or worse. Trouble is, the headlines go to the melt area

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/25/arctic-ice-melt-trigger-uncontrollable-climate-change-global-level

but not the Antartic, which is much bigger. The Arctic has very little land underneath so it won't stay white as easily as a cold spot with lots of land underneath - like Antarctica.


Antarctic sea ice had barely changed from where it was 100 years ago, scientists have discovered, after poring over the logbooks of great polar explorers such as Robert Falcon Scott and Ernest Shackleton.
Experts were concerned that ice at the South Pole had declined significantly since the 1950s, which they feared was driven by man-made climate change.
But new analysis suggests that conditions are now virtually identical to when the Terra Nova and Endurance sailed to the continent in the early 1900s, indicating that declines are part of a natural cycle and not the result of global warming.


Scott and Shackleton logbooks prove Antarctic sea ice is not shrinking 100 years after expeditions


This is the problem, we don't have enough data yet to say what is a "natural cycle" and what is recent, man-made and irreversible. Obviously it's often a bit of both. I'm not a climate denier but I'd like percentages.

If we're paying 1,000s a year each to support the EPA, and the EPA says we are emitting less CO2 than in 1990, then I don't see why we as an island / state / group of hominids should have to bust a gut to do even more. Unless it is all to sell new taxes, grants and jobs for the boys?
 


Clanrickard

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The end of the world will be the floods when all the ice melts, right?

East of Dublin 8 will be like Venice, or worse. Trouble is, the headlines go to the melt area

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/25/arctic-ice-melt-trigger-uncontrollable-climate-change-global-level

but not the Antartic, which is much bigger. The Arctic has very little land underneath so it won't stay white as easily as a cold spot with lots of land underneath - like Antarctica.


Antarctic sea ice had barely changed from where it was 100 years ago, scientists have discovered, after poring over the logbooks of great polar explorers such as Robert Falcon Scott and Ernest Shackleton.
Experts were concerned that ice at the South Pole had declined significantly since the 1950s, which they feared was driven by man-made climate change.
But new analysis suggests that conditions are now virtually identical to when the Terra Nova and Endurance sailed to the continent in the early 1900s, indicating that declines are part of a natural cycle and not the result of global warming.


Scott and Shackleton logbooks prove Antarctic sea ice is not shrinking 100 years after expeditions


This is the problem, we don't have enough data yet to say what is a "natural cycle" and what is recent, man-made and irreversible. Obviously it's often a bit of both. I'm not a climate denier but I'd like percentages.

If we're paying 1,000s a year each to support the EPA, and the EPA says we are emitting less CO2 than in 1990, then I don't see why we as an island / state / group of hominids should have to bust a gut to do even more. Unless it is all to sell new taxes, grants and jobs for the boys?
Arctic temperatures 20c higher than usual and you think there isn't a problem? Nuuuuuuuuurse!
 

Seanie Lemass

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You fkn fascist climatechageophobe.

You make Himmler seem like a nice man.


How can you live with your self?


(On more serious note, the notion that 150 years of fossil fuel use heralds the imminent doom of planet earth is bullsh1t.)
 

Spanner Island

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You fkn fascist climatechageophobe.

You make Himmler seem like a nice man.

How can you live with your self?

(On more serious note, the notion that 150 years of fossil fuel use heralds the imminent doom of planet earth is bullsh1t.)
Yeah... but no-one is claiming that... not anymore... nor have they been for a long time...

There's undoubtedly natural climate change occurring as it has been since there's been a climate...

The point is mankind's exploitation and relentless use of fossil fuels is exacerabating the natural effects and is making those effects more extreme.

Anyone who's been alive for over 40 years and who pays attention to the weather knows this.

You don't have to believe that if you don't want to... but you're a minority and if there's alternatives that are potentially less damaging (and there are for many things)... then why persist with the fossil fuel bullsh!t?

It's only in the interests of oil and gas company execs and various cronies and vested interests.
 

McTell

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Arctic temperatures 20c higher than usual and you think there isn't a problem? Nuuuuuuuuurse!

I wish it was 20c higher where I am right now petunia
 

McTell

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...
The point is mankind's exploitation and relentless use of fossil fuels is exacerabating the natural effects and is making those effects more extreme.

Anyone who's been alive for over 40 years and who pays attention to the weather knows this.

You don't have to believe that if you don't want to... but you're a minority and if there's alternatives that are potentially less damaging (and there are for many things)... then why persist with the fossil fuel bullsh!t?...

No, I have solar panels, and know there's some human effect on climate, but it's not clear where it begins and ends. If it's 5% more than the natural climate change then so what. If it's 50%, yow.
 

okibb

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My nine year old came home borderline distraught that our house will flood after a "lesson" on climate change, which her teacher made her believe is down to human factors.

I'm ashamed, as a scientist, that kids are being taught that reducing the human impact on climate will make everything right again, magically.

The earth undergoes periodic climate swings and any emission reductions, reduced carbon etc that we do will, if entirely successful, serve only to delay the inevitable.
 

gleeful

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Its hard to see how CO2 could cause arctic warming in winter, when its dark. The whole point of CO2 is it traps heat from sunlight. Right now the Arctic completely dark, or getting only a few minutes of dim sunlight per day. It will be dark until March.

But CO2 is warming it, and only it? While the Antarctic is in total daylight but normal temperatures?

Something odd is happening here.
 

ger12

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If you were diagnosed with cancer, would you ignore the advice of specialist cancer doctors and base your treatment decisions on what your own information gathering suggests ...
 

JCR

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My nine year old came home borderline distraught that our house will flood after a "lesson" on climate change, which her teacher made her believe is down to human factors.

I'm ashamed, as a scientist, that kids are being taught that reducing the human impact on climate will make everything right again, magically.

The earth undergoes periodic climate swings and any emission reductions, reduced carbon etc that we do will, if entirely successful, serve only to delay the inevitable.
Its this sort of attitude that will, I am pretty certain, ensure that humankind will destroy itself through titanic belligerence.

"Lets do nothing about that, its a bit inconvenient, especially at weekends."
 

Ardillaun

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Climate science does not have a control Earth to compare ours with and convince the sceptics. By the time the evidence on climate change is conclusive things may be fairly grim which does not sound like prudent public policy for us earthlings.
 

JCR

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Its hard to see how CO2 could cause arctic warming in winter, when its dark. The whole point of CO2 is it traps heat from sunlight. Right now the Arctic completely dark, or getting only a few minutes of dim sunlight per day. It will be dark until March.

But CO2 is warming it, and only it? While the Antarctic is in total daylight but normal temperatures?

Something odd is happening here.
So you can't understand science? Therefore its not happening? I see.
 

Polly Ticks

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The debate around climate change is secondary to the reality, which is that the smart and sane thing to do (to ensure the long-term survival and prosperity of the human race; these on this planet, at least) is to reduce reliance on finite fossil fuels and focus on harnessing renewable sources of energy.
 

gleeful

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The debate around climate change is secondary to the reality, which is that the smart and sane thing to do (to ensure the long-term survival and prosperity of the human race; these on this planet, at least) is to reduce reliance on finite fossil fuels and focus on harnessing renewable sources of energy.
The smart and sane thing to do is to achieve that goal using nuclear power. But the environmentalists have bullsh!t reasons why we can't do that. If they hadn't campaigned against nuclear power in the 70s onward, we wouldn't be in this mess now.
 

okibb

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Its this sort of attitude that will, I am pretty certain, ensure that humankind will destroy itself through titanic belligerence.

"Lets do nothing about that, its a bit inconvenient, especially at weekends."
Is that observation based on anything or is it your opinion?
 


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