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Seamus Heaney: "There's never going to be a united Ireland".



Mickeymac

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Jun 30, 2010
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37,942
What Heaney says doesn't seem logical. I think any responsible person should simply hold the line, the decision was a political one, made by BCC, only they can change it, not some lager louts called out onto the streets by some irresponsible politicos.

Totally concur pal with all your comments but he is entitled to his opinions.
 
J

Johnny Boy

What Heaney says doesn't seem logical. I think any responsible person should simply hold the line, the decision was a political one, made by BCC, only they can change it, not some lager louts called out onto the streets by some irresponsible politicos.
Exactly, and I find the suggestion that you shouldn't take political or other decisions, simply because it might provoke some ill-educated, underemployed thugs onto the street pretty spineless.The union flag has been used to rub nationalist noses in it for as long as I remember. During some of the very first civil rights marches in Derry in 1968, I remember howling loyalist mobs waving union flags in fury at us from behind police lines at the bottom of Abercorn Road.
In a divided society it makes sense to take contentious flags out of politics, where they are a sectarian taunt to one side and an insult to the other.
 

Glenshane4

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Sep 5, 2012
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Seamus Heaney is not the first Northern Ireland Catholic who took up residence in Eire and then preached at the people he left behind. Nor is he likely to be the last.
 

Narcissist

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Nov 24, 2012
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1,314
Do you dispute Billy Wright effectively neutered the East Tyrone Provos and Lower Shankill's C Company hammered the 'Belfast brigade'? Fek'n useless?
I haven't been having the best of days Legolas but that cheered me right up. Did you ever think of giving the aul stand-up a go?
 

DavidCaldwell

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Jun 9, 2011
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3,949
Ye see? WTF does this chit mean?petunia

Uselless. They done fek all in the 1912 period, fek all in '74, fek all the 80s, fek all, fek all, fek all. A bunch of useless skangers, look at the fek'n state of the fleg protests? Laughing stock. What are they going to do kill a taig?petunia Without Britain's help they are fkn shockingly useless.
I would be a bit more cautious of criticisms of "themums". If the facts indicate the contrary, then the remark comes across as ill-informed or bigoted.

In case of the UVF of 1912, they joined up in 1914 and fought extremely bravely in the battle of the Somme. From Wikipedia -
The 36th was one of the few divisions to make significant gains on the first day on the Somme. It attacked between the Ancre and Thiepval against a position known as the Schwaben Redoubt. According to military historian Martin Middlebrook:
The leading battalions (of the 36th (Ulster) Division) had been ordered out from the wood just before 7.30am and laid down near the German trenches ... At zero hour the British barrage lifted. Bugles blew the "Advance". Up sprang the Ulstermen and, without forming up in the waves adopted by other divisions, they rushed the German front line ..... By a combination of sensible tactics and Ulster dash, the prize that eluded so many, the capture of a long section of the German front line, had been accomplished.[1]
During the Battle of the Somme the Ulster Division was the only division of X Corps to have achieved its objectives on the opening day of the battle. This came at a heavy price, with the division suffering in two days of fighting 5,500 officers and men killed, wounded or missing.[2] War correspondent Philip Gibbs said of the Division, "Their attack was one of the finest displays of human courage in the world.[3]
Of nine Victoria Crosses given to British forces in the battle, four were awarded to 36th Division soldiers
They were courageous Irishmen (as they would have described themselves at the time).

By the way, I do recognise that
- many Nationalists have been just as brave;
- the forming of the UVF in 1912 was a bad idea;
- WW1 was a colossal waste of human life;
- the later UVF were murderers.
 
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J

Johnny Boy

In case of the UVF of 1912, they joined up in 1914 and fought extremely bravely in the battle of the Somme. From Wikipedia -


They were courageous Irishmen (as they would have described themselves at the time).

By the way, I do recognise that
- many Nationalists have been just as brave;
Get a grip David. They were cannon fodder. Brave or stupid? World War I was a power struggle between a bunch of equally unscrupulous ruling classes in places like Germany, Austro-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Britain and France, who didn't care a toss about the poor sods who were dumb enough to swallow the propaganda and needlessly give their lives in the most squalid conditions imaginable. People like that are fools - always.
 

Just Jack

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Sep 10, 2010
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He calls things as he sees them - you lot hate him because he put the Part in the Hat in his place.
I'm sorry, who is the Part in the Hat?
 

between the bridges

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Sep 21, 2011
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44,682
Get a grip David. They were cannon fodder. Brave or stupid? World War I was a power struggle between a bunch of equally unscrupulous ruling classes in places like Germany, Austro-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Britain and France, who didn't care a toss about the poor sods who were dumb enough to swallow the propaganda and needlessly give their lives in the most squalid conditions imaginable. People like that are fools - always.
to paraphrase your good-self... who cares what an old fart thinks...
 

cricket

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Nov 7, 2009
Messages
13,786
There's a blatant disconnect between his declaration that there's no chance of a UI and his belief that the loyalists should have their way in relation to flags.
I'm not going to go over the old arguments about inconsistency between BCC and Lisburn, etc.. That aside, Heaney seems to say that, now that we won't have a UI, give the loyalists whatever they want. Not having a UI doesn't mean that there's only one alternative, the extremist loyalist view. Had it not been for Alliance, there would have been no flag at all in Belfast on any day.
The way forward on this and other issues is a broad accommodation, catering for as many as is reasonably possible.
 

Just Jack

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Sep 10, 2010
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Typo - The Prat in the Hat:


I still don’t get it…

What did Heaney do which put Morrison in his place, exactly?
 

RedCloud

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Nov 1, 2012
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Ye see? WTF does this chit mean?petunia

Uselless. They done fek all in the 1912 period, fek all in '74, fek all the 80s, fek all, fek all, fek all. A bunch of useless skangers, look at the fek'n state of the fleg protests? Laughing stock. What are they going to do kill a taig?petunia Without Britain's help they are fkn shockingly useless.
Translates ( after much snickering ) as; I am quite happy and contented to be living in the Glorious United Kingdom. :)
 

RedCloud

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Joined
Nov 1, 2012
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Jamesy Heaney, that man of words,
So beloved of nat/rep curds;
Has made his views both clear and plain,
The will never be A Notion Once Again .:)
 


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