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Seanad nominating bodies


lostexpectation

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lostexpectation

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In Seanad today while discussing the Seanad Reform bill they said groups had trouble becoming nominating bodies, because of the arcane process.

The Seanad Reform document does not suggest getting rid of the nominating via nominating bodies process, but will people getting to vote for half the Seanad seats lead to a broader or non-party political group of people being nominated through these bodies? (while there is still a want from the government parties to have a firm majority in the Seanad).

Senator Zappone http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/seanad2015050500002?opendocument#O00100
Prior to getting into the proper debate on the Seanad referendum we gathered a group of civil society organisations to inform them about what the vocational aspect of the Seanad meant, and to invite them to consider being nominating bodies as part of our agenda to open up the Seanad and connect with the public. Vocational for us meant sectoral in particular. I like how the various vocational panels are renamed in the report to cover public administration and social services including voluntary social activities. Through the experience, my colleagues and I found that even when we tried to inform civil society groups about what being a registered body meant and about nominating candidates to become part of a panel there was still confusion. As we encouraged them to become registering bodies and they engaged with the Clerk of the Seanad - and I agree with all of the comments made about the Clerk of the Seanad - we found it seemed to be very difficult to go through the process to become a registering body. This is partly because much of the process is based on antiquated law and procedures. In addition to an information campaign to encourage more bodies to register we need to modernise how registration happens and the criteria for organisations to register. One of the stumbling blocks we found is many bodies which want to register may not be considered charities because they are civil rights organisations.


is this the latest form of this form S.I. No. 91/1954 - Seanad Electoral (Panel Members) (Prescribed Forms) Regulations, 1954.
8 (2) (b) a body shall not be eligible to be registered in the register in respect of any particular panel unless either—
(I) (i) its objects primarily relate to or are connected with the interests and services mentioned in subsection 10 of Section 7 of Article 18 of the Constitution in respect of that particular panel, and
(ii) its activities are concerned mainly with such interests and services, or
(II) its members are representative of persons who have knowledge and practical experience of such interests and services ;
so what they need to do is form civil rights workers association and then have that body apply.

Seanad Reform working group report http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/eng/Work_Of_The_Department/Protocol/Working_Group_on_Seanad_Reform/FINAL_Seanad_Reform_web_version.pdf
 
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stakerwallace

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The largest quango of all. Let's have that referendum again.
 

Victor Meldrew

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The largest quango of all. Let's have that referendum again.
Sod that, extend vote to the general public and make it a mere stipend of €10K. that would stop the journeymen. So what it is "elitist" to have only the independently wealthy there, but that is less elitist than it is now.
 

lostexpectation

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Betson

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The senead should be voted for in a general election. The candidates should be able to stand on their own cognition without approval from anyone else.

Salary should be minimum wage plus expenses.

Before the referendum all the reform proposals from the pro Seanad lobby had proposed salary cuts to senators , including the main proposal from Crown and Zappa??? senator , after the vote all mention of salary cuts were dropped from every proposal.
 

lostexpectation

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Before the referendum all the reform proposals from the pro Seanad lobby had proposed salary cuts to senators , including the main proposal from Crown and Zappa??? senator , after the vote all mention of salary cuts were dropped from every proposal.
which "every proposal" after the referendum from Crown and Zappone.
 
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Betson

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which "every proposal"
They were all coming out with stuff about how they were going to reform it from top to bottom, all agreeing that they knew they were over paid.

I remember one of them was released to big fanfare which recommended a 50% cut , a modified version was re-released after the vote with a few changes including the salary cut omitted , the press picked up on it at the time..

Howe long ago is that referendum now? other than yet another white paper has there been any real progress?

Although it has to be said the Government are well within their rights to do nothing on the issue as the people did not vote for reform but voted to keep it as it is , this was very clear before the vote that if you wanted real reform then the option was to scrap it and start again bUt the people voted they were happy with the status quo, and that is exactly what they got.
 

lostexpectation

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They were all coming out with stuff about how they were going to reform it from top to bottom, all agreeing that they knew they were over paid.

I remember one of them was released to big fanfare which recommended a 50% cut , a modified version was re-released after the vote with a few changes including the salary cut omitted , the press picked up on it at the time..
they havn't republished an altered bill afaik so setting the Senators pay to 50% of a TDs pay (a reduction of ~ 33% if you take todays salaries) hasn't been removed. http://senatorkatherinezappone.ie/index.php/entry/a-bill-to-reform-the-seanad/bill/
Howe long ago is that referendum now? other than yet another white paper has there been any real progress?
tell that to Kenny

Although it has to be said the Government are well within their rights to do nothing on the issue as the people did not vote for reform but voted to keep it as it is , this was very clear before the vote that if you wanted real reform then the option was to scrap it and start again bUt the people voted they were happy with the status quo, and that is exactly what they got.
well kenny is saying he going to reform it now
 
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lostexpectation

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this is the nominating bodies and their winning nominees that all happen to be member of political parties http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/publications/IrisOifigSupplem25b.pdf

Brian Ó'DomhnaillFianna FailThe Dairy Executives' Association
Catherine NooneFine GaelIrish Country Houses and Restaurants Association;The Construction Industry Federation
Colm BurkeFine GaelAssociation of Patent and Trade Mark Attorneys, National Housebuilding Guarantee Company Limited;Nursing Homes Ireland
Denis LandyLabourAssociation of Municipal Authorities of Ireland.
Denis O'DonovanFianna FailIrish Greyhound Owners and Breeders Federation.
Imelda HenryFine GaelVintners’ Federation of Ireland Limited
Jim WalshFianna FailIrish Grain and Feed Association
Labhrás Ó'MurchúFianna FailComhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann
Marc MacSharryFianna FailWholesale Produce Ireland;The Chambers of Commerce of Ireland;
The Insurance Institute of Ireland;Institute of Bankers in Ireland
Marie MoloneyLabourIrish Congress of Trade Unions
Mark DalyFianna FailIrish Deaf Society — National Association of the Deaf;Enable Ireland Disability Services Limited;Irish Kidney Association.
Martin ConwayFine GaelPeople with Disabilities in Ireland Ltd.
Mary WhiteFianna FailIrish Exporters Association Limited.
Maurice CumminsFine GaelThe Irish Conference of Professional and Service Associations.
Michael MullinsFine GaelThe Irish Vocational Education Association.
Ned O'SullivanFianna FailThe Irish Conference of Professional and Service Associations;Irish Congress of Trade Unions.
Paddy BurkeFine GaelIrish Co-operative Organisation Society Limited.
Paschal MooneyFianna FailNational Association of Regional Game Councils.
Pat O'NeillFine GaelNational Association of Regional Game Councils.
Paul BradfordFine GaelThe Irish Thoroughbred Breeders’ Association.
Paul CoghlanFine GaelRGDATA — Retail, Grocery, Dairy and Allied Trades Association
Terry BrennanFine GaelIrish Congress of Trade Unions.
Terry LeydenFianna FailThe Irish Conference of Professional and Service Associations.
 

Conor

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this was very clear before the vote that if you wanted real reform then the option was to scrap it and start again bUt the people voted they were happy with the status quo, and that is exactly what they got.
There was never an option to reform by scrapping and starting again. The option was simply to scrap it. Starting again would be an impossibility in the constitutional framework if the referendum had passed.
 

GJG

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There was never an option to reform by scrapping and starting again. The option was simply to scrap it. Starting again would be an impossibility in the constitutional framework if the referendum had passed.
This was one of the big lies of the referendum campaign. If the amendment had gone through, there would be absolutely nothing to stop the current, or any future, government from proposing a referendum to create a reformed Seanad.

The response from the vested interests was that it would be impossible to establish the Seanad again, and they phrased this in a way that was designed to be misunderstood that there was some legal impediment to so doing. In reality what they meant was that if they lost their gravy train, the people would never agree to recreating it.

The referendum offered a straight choice between the current version of the Seanad and abolition. All talk of reform was a mere distraction.

It is not remotely credible that the freeloaders, having narrowly escaped abolition, will do anything that will endanger derailing their gravy train. Expect a lot of huff and puff, and not one step towards 'reform'.
 

lostexpectation

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This was one of the big lies of the referendum campaign. If the amendment had gone through, there would be absolutely nothing to stop the current, or any future, government from proposing a referendum to create a reformed Seanad.

The response from the vested interests was that it would be impossible to establish the Seanad again, and they phrased this in a way that was designed to be misunderstood that there was some legal impediment to so doing. In reality what they meant was that if they lost their gravy train, the people would never agree to recreating it.

The referendum offered a straight choice between the current version of the Seanad and abolition. All talk of reform was a mere distraction.

It is not remotely credible that the freeloaders, having narrowly escaped abolition, will do anything that will endanger derailing their gravy train. Expect a lot of huff and puff, and not one step towards 'reform'.
are you calling Kenny a freeloader, this is all in his power not the senators.
 

GJG

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are you calling Kenny a freeloader, this is all in his power not the senators.
All but the upper tier of TDs have a close eye on the Seanad as a consolation prize in case they lose their seats. The upper tier view it as a gift that they can dole out to reward the faithful.

I prefer a simpler solution. The voters decide if you win a seat; if you don't, then find another career.
 

lostexpectation

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All but the upper tier of TDs have a close eye on the Seanad as a consolation prize in case they lose their seats. The upper tier view it as a gift that they can dole out to reward the faithful.

I prefer a simpler solution. The voters decide if you win a seat; if you don't, then find another career.
i dont think they mentioned having the election the same day as the dail election, thats the biggest disappointment in the taoiseach's seanad reform working group report http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/eng/Work_Of_The_Department/Protocol/Working_Group_on_Seanad_Reform/FINAL_Seanad_Reform_web_version.pdf
 
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lostexpectation

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lostexpectation

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isn't it amazing how all those seanad nominating bodies nominate so many political party members
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MWYTJ0nOLHDFUy6NbJs2Du2zskDNm-VbaC5UFetQdNs/edit?usp=sharing

need to find evidence of selection process within nominating bodies like this http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/committees29thdail/subcomonseanadreform/submissionschapter5.doc

  • On the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] June 2002, a meeting was held in The Irish Bank Officials Association Headquarters, St Stephen’s Green. I was nominated by the Association. From fourteen applications of nomination, seven were nominated. Those nominated were as follows:
  • Senator Dan Kiely M.C.C.,
    • Senator Teresa Ridge M.C.C.,
    • Cllr Terry Leyden,
    • Ms Geraldine Feeney,
    • Mr Sean Lyons,
    • Cllr Maurice Cummins,
    • Cllr Gary Keegan
  • Of the seven nominated, the following were duly elected: Ms Geraldine Feeney, Cllr Terry Leyden, Cllr Maurice Cummins.
 
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lostexpectation

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were lucky to have Senators who have such wide ranging knowledge and experience they can sit on 3 or 4 different panels

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MWYTJ0nOLHDFUy6NbJs2Du2zskDNm-VbaC5UFetQdNs/pubhtml?gid=1850119653&single=true

and can be nominated by such varying bodies Imelda Henry Institute of Engineers in 2007 Vintners in 2011, her father being a founding member of it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MWYTJ0nOLHDFUy6NbJs2Du2zskDNm-VbaC5UFetQdNs/pubhtml?gid=2011303635&single=true
 
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lostexpectation

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General Scheme of the Seanad Electoral (University Members) (Amendment) Bill 2014: Statements

Zappone: This Bill is an opportunity to open up the Seanad but it is also an opportunity to modernise the process through which nominating bodies to the Seanad apply and are approved. Prior to the Seanad referendum, my Independent Senator colleagues and I held a meeting of the current nominating bodies along with a significant number of civil society organisations who were interested in becoming nominating bodies. It was a very well attended, vibrant meeting with over 60 participants. As part of the event, I presented information on how Seanad elections work. I outlined the number and type of panels, how people are nominated, including a mention of the sub-panels and I also described the five vocational panels. Having had some key meetings with Ms Deirdre Lane and Ms Jody Blake prior to that meeting, I was also able to explain how they could register an interest in becoming a nominating body and how they might qualify to become a nominating body.

Many organisations have expressed an interest in becoming nominating bodies. However, we found the administrative process through which organisations apply to become nominating bodies is most outdated. The rules under which the bodies must apply date from the 1947 Seanad Electoral (Panel Members) Act and contain no provision for electronic communications. Applications must be posted or hand-delivered. More critical than that, the criteria for becoming a nominating body are not absolutely clear to those who wish to apply, as this provision of information is restricted within the 1947 Act. We need to amend the criteria required to become a nominating body so that those organisations which nominate can represent the wide diversity of civil society organisations that have been established since the 1950s. These amendments to the 1947 Act could be incorporated within this Bill which would be a positive move by the Government.​
60 organisations and maybe 4/5 added
 
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