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Seanad Reform Implementation Group


Degeneration X

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they could facilitate more ngos to sign up and nominate more diverse people, the panels are in the consitution and harder to officially change.
The relationship between the NGO's and the politicians is too incestous already.

Make it a real second chamber with powers and directly elected by the people on a one person, one vote basis or scrap it!
 

Degeneration X

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They still have not implemented the will of the people from the 1979 referendum that allowed the govt to expand the number of universities former and current students of which would be allowed vote. We do NOT need ANOTHER Seanad working group. There has been one already in 2014. :roll:
There have been more than a bakers dozen attempts to reform it since the 1930s, all have come to nothing.
 

Degeneration X

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I regret voting to retain the Seanad. I should have known better.
I think you regret falling for the reform not repeal line.

There's nothing wrong with a bicameral system in theory as long as both upper and lower chambers are elected by the people.
 

Degeneration X

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They are not attempts - they are just kicking the can down the road.
Same difference at the end of the day, if there was ever an issue for the Citizen's Assembly to look into it's this one. You can't get any real reform of the Seanad without a sweeping constitutional amendment.
 

lostexpectation

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The relationship between the NGO's and the politicians is too incestous already.

Make it a real second chamber with powers and directly elected by the people on a one person, one vote basis or scrap it!
would require a referendum wouldn't its

how would differentiate it from the Dail?

theres been suggestions of keeping panels and having x number of people nominate (to nominate people who are considered expert in the panels areas) so they could come from ngos anyway but may not.
 
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lostexpectation

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Same difference at the end of the day, if there was ever an issue for the Citizen's Assembly to look into it's this one. You can't get any real reform of the Seanad without a sweeping constitutional amendment.
the referendum had been proposed at the time of the constitutional convention.
 
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lostexpectation

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In part maybe but I also think the referendum's closeness forced the Seanad to prove its worth more.
think gov using seanad to speed up legislation sometimes because there is backlog in the dail and also because it gets less attention and can try to push it through
 

Degeneration X

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that would require a referendum wouldn't its Article 19

how would differentiate it from the Dail?

theres been suggestions of keeping panels and having x number of people nominate (to nominate people who are considered expert in the panels areas) so they could come from ngos anyway but may not.
I have no problem with a referendum and the citizen's assembly and a constitutional review group working to put something together.

It will have to be done sometime, so they should quit messing around and cut the Gordian knot.
 

lostexpectation

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Sure so let's get on with it, though for it to succeed the panels will have to scrapped - they are a relic of 1930s corporatist ideology anyway.
even with referendum again how would differentiate it from the Dail?


this group is about what they can change without a referendum, although I wouldn't be opposed to one, I think they can reinterpret the panels broadly and allow people to vote for half the seats with legislation.
 

Degeneration X

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even with referendum again how would differentiate it from the Dail?


this group is about what they can change without a referendum, although I wouldn't be opposed to one, I think they can reinterpret the panels broadly and allow people to vote for half the seats with legislation.
One's a lower chamber, the other's an Upper Chamber - that's how they are differentiated. A new Seanad would need to be elected on different constituency boundaries though, maybe use the Euro constituencies as templates and do it on a PR-List.

Any attempt at reform without a referendum will surely fail to deliver IMO. Half the seats will be insufficent and is the epitome of a half measure. The panel system is simply too irrational to be practical.
 

ger12

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4 years on from the referendum and after the Manning Group report https://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/eng/News/Government_Press_Releases/Working_group_on_Seanad_Reform_.html and FG/FF blocked a Seanad Reform bill https://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=33177&&CatID=59
we get Seanad Reform Implementation Group who are meant to come up with a bill that they all can agree on (that doesn't require constitutional change)


7FG
6FF
5IND
2SF
1LP
1GP

so dominated by parties who have prevented change
Why did they block it?
 

lostexpectation

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Why did they block it?
cos they want to keep their jobs, they think councillors and oireachtas people should be the ones who decide who goes into the Seanad, to keep the councillors and political party influence and some like Norris in relation to the 79 ref don't want to lose any seats from his constituency panel.
 
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lostexpectation

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4 years on from the referendum and after the Manning Group report https://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/eng/News/Government_Press_Releases/Working_group_on_Seanad_Reform_.html and FG/FF blocked a Seanad Reform bill https://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=33177&&CatID=59
we get Seanad Reform Implementation Group who are meant to come up with a bill that they all can agree on (that doesn't require constitutional change)


7FG
6FF
5IND
2SF
1LP
1GP

so dominated by parties who have prevented change
is it strange that only 1 of the 6 Fianna Fail members of ther Seanad Reform Implementation Group is a Senator.

are FF senators bar Ned boycotting it?
 

lostexpectation

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dublinstreams.blogspot.com
Proposals to reform Seanad published by committee
  • 11 senators be appointed by the Taoiseach
  • 15 senators be elected by TDs, Senators, County and City Councillors
  • 34 senators be directly elected from five vocational panels, and another including graduates of all universities.
documents here Gov.ie

Leo has little interest in this so its not going to be hurried
 
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