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Selfish criticism of Fine Gael Policies


Blackadder

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Oct 24, 2006
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15
I am amazed at the "reaction" to Fine Gael's recent policy proposals with regard to military camps for youth offenders and the provision of bins for the disposal of firearms in churches etc.

People must debate these policy proposals honestly and openly and not with the sort of self righteous ignorance of some of the posters on this forum and in the media.

I think it outrageous that Tom Brady when writing in today's Independent completely ignored a detailed disscusion of the policy on gun bins in favour of putting across the view that some listeners on a radio show thought it a bad idea.

I am a Fine Gael supporter but I do belive that in the interests of the a country plagued by crime that people discuss these proposals with the respect the issues they seek to address should demand
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Indeed they should be debated - I have stated it's a good idea as have some others on this forum. But at the end of the day it all comes back to the principle problem with all FG policies - will Labour accept them? The answer to that came last night with Brendan Howlin's firm no. Only joint FG-Lab policies can have any credibility, and the problem there is that what is left out of those reminds us of the continuing division between the parties. Add to that the fact that the only chance of getting FG and Labour into govt is with the Greens, and you do not have a recipe for a credible, coherent, alternative govt.
 

rover

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Jan 9, 2006
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future moron would you like to see a list of all the fianna fail and pd policies which were jettisoned as soon as they got into government???

or is everything sweetness and light in that camp?
 

FutureTaoiseach

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rover said:
future moron would you like to see a list of all the fianna fail and pd policies which were jettisoned as soon as they got into government???

or is everything sweetness and light in that camp?
One of the reasons I am supporting the PDs is because it's "the meat that gives the sandwich its flavour". The smaller party/ies determine the ideological direction of the govt. Much of the PD program has been implemented e.g. income tax-rates - perhaps to be fully realised next month - privatisations, Garda Reserve, Garda Ombudsman Commission etc. Granted Coalition is a marriage where give-and-take is required, but FG's history shows it has always been "give" with them. They always cave in to leftwing parties and that is why they have been stuck under 30% since 1987, compared to 39% in 1982. The free-market wing of their vote went to the PDs while others disilussioned with FG-Lab incompetence became part of a floating vote that is currently flirting with SF and the Greens. Hence FG-Lab have not won office nationally in a General Election since 1982. And they still won't if the register is fair. We don't want a rudderless ship sailing us into potentially turbulent global economic waters with a US slowdown on the way. Only competent economic management - such as that demonstrated by the current govt - can successfully steer us through these economic waters. As Brian Cowen recently said, FG and Labour when in govt, have always responded to economic difficulties by raising taxes. The Slump Coalition's prescription will be worse than the disease and should be avoided like the Plague.
 

rover

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Jan 9, 2006
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69
its just one, long, sad party political broadcast with you isnt it? are you even capable of adult discussion??

and people like you wonder why they cant get girlfriends
 

FutureTaoiseach

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rover said:
its just one, long, sad party political broadcast with you isnt it? are you even capable of adult discussion??

and people like you wonder why they cant get girlfriends
:roll:
 

Munion

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319
rover said:
its just one, long, sad party political broadcast with you isnt it? are you even capable of adult discussion??

and people like you wonder why they cant get girlfriends
Dude, FT is gay :D
 

rover

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Munion said:
Dude, FT is gay
well thank god for that. if was ever chatted up by a Toryboy like him i think i would classify it as a sexcrime
 

Rocky

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Just to bring this back on topic. Yeah I do think it is disappointing. As it stands, the system for dealing with young offenders is not working with €300,000 to €500,000 spent on each young offender per annum and recidivism rates at astronomical levels. Alongside this anti-social behaviour is at an all-time high. Violent crime has increased and detection rates have decreased with anti-social behaviour rampant across every community. Since 2003, murder has increased by 25%, firearms offences by 43% and rape by 33%.

So clearly what the government is doing, which in many cases is nothing, isn't working. However instead of trying to come up with ideas themselves they just attack FG when they do. In many ways this is working the opposite to how it should. As time goes on I think FF now have no idea how to solve Ireland's problems and now believe that the only way they can win this election is by damaging FG. Basically rather then claim we're better then FG, they're trying to claim FG and worst then us, which I think is very disappointing and points to a very very bad government and also if they get elected to another five years like the last one i.e. a period when the government does nothing to solve Ireland’s problems.

Simple question Maximus and FT all other FFers, how do you propose we solve these problems? Because what your doing now isn’t working. Also what are FF/PD doing right now to solve these problems?
 

FutureTaoiseach

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Rocky said:
Just to bring this back on topic. Yeah I do think it is disappointing. As it stands, the system for dealing with young offenders is not working with €300,000 to €500,000 spent on each young offender per annum and recidivism rates at astronomical levels. Alongside this anti-social behaviour is at an all-time high. Violent crime has increased and detection rates have decreased with anti-social behaviour rampant across every community. Since 2003, murder has increased by 25%, firearms offences by 43% and rape by 33%.

So clearly what the government is doing, which in many cases is nothing, isn't working. However instead of trying to come up with ideas themselves they just attack FG when they do. In many ways this is working the opposite to how it should. As time goes on I think FF now have no idea how to solve Ireland's problems and now believe that the only way they can win this election is by damaging FG. Basically rather then claim we're better then FG, they're trying to claim FG and worst then us, which I think is very disappointing and points to a very very bad government and also if they get elected to another five years like the last one i.e. a period when the government does nothing to solve Ireland’s problems.

Simple question Maximus and FT all other FFers, how do you propose we solve these problems? Because what your doing now isn’t working. Also what are FF/PD doing right now to solve these problems?
I personally have noticed and I'm sure many others have too an increase in Gardai on our streets - especially the traffic-corp. Clearly the govt has met its promises in this regard - and the Garda Reserve - pushed through in spite of all the detractors on the Opposition benches who hoped it wouldn't be - will increase this trend by freeing up Gardai from desk-duties. That will help tackle crime - which is already set to be lower than in 2005 based on preliminary figures for late 2006. I think it's very cynical of you to be so selective about which crime statistics you use.

I agree that political-debate should primarily be about policies, but after Bertiegate, I don't feel the Opposition can lecture others on criticising them after all the criticism they have done - to their cost. At least criticism of FG is based on policy or the unlikelihood of it being implemented owing to the Opposition of FG's would-be Coalition partners Labour and likely the Greens too. This govt is solving Ireland's problems. Dublin hospital patients on trolles have fallen by 40% thanks to Minister Harney's NTPF and the privte-hospital initiative will accelerate this trend with developments such as the Beacon Hospital. Labour's Liz McManus has said that the scrapping of the incentives for private-hospitals will be a precondition for Coalition with FG. So obviously the leftist ideologues with their phobia of the private-sector will wreck the health-service by closing off a key factor in cutting waiting-times and reducing overcrowding. Irish Labour - unlike UK Labour - continue to cling onto outdated dogmas of hostility to the private-sector and high taxes.
 

rover

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FutureTaoiseach said:
and the Garda Reserve - pushed through in spite of all the detractors on the Opposition benches who hoped it wouldn't be
another lie! fine gael supported the garda reserve 100%
 

FutureTaoiseach

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rover said:
FutureTaoiseach said:
and the Garda Reserve - pushed through in spite of all the detractors on the Opposition benches who hoped it wouldn't be
another lie! fine gael supported the garda reserve 100%
I said the Opposition benches which obviously includes more than just the Blueshirts. As likely participants in a hypothetical Rainbow govt - should it get elected which I doubt - their negativism about the idea is very relevant indeed - and a sign a Rainbow govt would be soft on crime.

Green Party slams 'premature' Garda recruitment drive:

The Green Party has criticised the Minister for Justice for embarking on a premature recruitment drive for the Garda Reserve force.
 

rover

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FutureTaoiseach said:
I said the Opposition benches which obviously includes more than just the Blueshirts
err...the thread is about "blueshirts" you moron. if your going to bring up stuff that has nothing to do with the thread then maybe you should have said so
 

FutureTaoiseach

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rover said:
FutureTaoiseach said:
I said the Opposition benches which obviously includes more than just the Blueshirts
err...the thread is about "blueshirts" you moron. if your going to bring up stuff that has nothing to do with the thread then maybe you should have said so
It's relevant to the Blueshirts in that here are prospective Coalition partners of FG and Labour demonstrating how the Rainbow are at sixes and sevens and unable to agree on very much other than ABFF.
 

culbair

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Nov 25, 2006
Messages
141
This thread is a source of amusement. The P.Ds are a joke. McDowell talks about a Slump Coalition. The man has a hard neck. Afterall is he not a member of The Stealth Tax Coalition? The Pickpocket Coalition has introduced a bewildering array of sneeky taxes. From Disgraceful Development charges on new house owners to the credit card.-You name it they have done it.
 

tonys

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Oct 5, 2005
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Are big bullies giving FG and their postage stamp ideas a hard time?. Don’t you mind them, they’re just big bullies so they are, don’t cry, don’t cry.
 

culbair

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Nov 25, 2006
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P.D sarcasm is no substitute for fact. Look at the shambles of a health service. Meanwhile gun crime is out of control. Postage Stamp policies in action.
 

tonys

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Oct 5, 2005
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culbair said:
P.D sarcasm is no substitute for fact. Look at the shambles of a health service. Meanwhile gun crime is out of control. Postage Stamp policies in action.
PD’s??, I’ll have you know that I don’t have a middle class bone in my body, how dare you Sir,
Your insults are as well thought out as your policies.
 

Biffo

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Jul 1, 2004
Messages
79
What are these education proposals announced earlier? I think they include such classic FG positions as a payment will be made to teachers working in poor areas or something to that effect.
 
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