Sending the Budget to the EU "For Approval"

firefighter

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I understand between €3bn and €4bn will need to be shaved off the 2011 budget.

But will this Government again send off our budget for scrutiny by Brussels bureaucrats?

This is a huge undermining of our national sovereignty and an insult to the electorate.

Joan Burton (who I don't normally agree with) had lots to say at the last budget day on this matter. Lenihan who enjoys giving off an air of authority and knowledge, is nothing but a puppet AFAIC.

I have no doubt that the books have been opened for inspection and negotiations are well underway. By budget day, all will have been decided via conference call and first class flights to and from Brussels.

Update: I just Brian Cowen on the 9 o'clock news today (Oct 2nd). Over in Brussels discussing our budget. FF gimps sporting open neck shirts in the background as he's doing his TV interview with RTE. Is he trying to give off an air that he knows what he's doing? He's being told what to do. And who is paying for these unelected party hacks to attend these meetings in Brussels? No doubt they're all in the bar now getting pissed alongside the Brussels set.
 
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eyelight

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This is a huge undermining of our national sovereignty and an insult to the electorate.
Yes, but the suckers voted yes to Lisbon, didn't they.
All Europeans now.

Anyhow, maybe for the best.
Ireland has proved that it's incapable of self-governance.
 

HarshBuzz

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the facts;

1. Rehn on Tuesday said that Ireland needed to show multi-year visibility on its budget

2. Lenihan 36 hours later turns around and pledges to do exactly that

no question as to whose hand is really on the tiller
 

firefighter

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They'll let unelected European bureaucrats see inside the books and give orders to senior civil servants, but they won't let opposition members of the Dail look at the books. Let alone influence how the budget should proceed.
 

johnfás

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I understand between €3bn and €4bn will need to be shaved off the 2011 budget.

But will this Government again send off our budget for scrutiny by Brussels bureaucrats?

This is a huge undermining of our national sovereignty and an insult to the electorate.

Joan Burton (who I don't normally agree with) had lots to say at the last budget day on this matter. Lenihan who enjoys giving off an air of authority and knowledge, is nothing but a puppet AFAIC.

I have no doubt that the books have been opened for inspection and negotiations are well underway. By budget day, all will have been decided via conference call and first class flights to and from Brussels.
We're living off Europe's money so why wouldn't they want to know where it is going. I'm sure they'd be quite happy for us to go off and do our own thing if that were our perogative.

Yes, but the suckers voted yes to Lisbon, didn't they.
All Europeans now.

Anyhow, maybe for the best.
Ireland has proved that it's incapable of self-governance.
Its got nothing to do with the Lisbon Treaty. Outline how the situation would be materially different if Lisbon had not passed.
 

bersouth

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They'll let unelected European bureaucrats see inside the books and give orders to senior civil servants, but they won't let opposition members of the Dail look at the books. Let alone influence how the budget should proceed.
Brian Lenihan invite opposition to the Dept to view the books, dont think they were in any rush to see the trouble we are in...
 

firefighter

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We're living off Europe's money so why wouldn't they want to know where it is going. I'm sure they'd be quite happy for us to go off and do our own thing if that were our perogative.
Jeez. And there's me thinking the Irish Government could raise all the money they needed on the bond markets and didn't need EU/IMF support.
 

johnfás

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Jeez. And there's me thinking the Irish Government could raise all the money they needed on the bond markets and didn't need EU/IMF support.
If you believe that you're even worse than the Government. The State has been living off the support of the ECB for over a year. The ECB are providing finance to banks to buy our bonds and where that fails they are buying the bonds themselves. There is little finance flowing into this State which is not a handout from Europe at present... and yet you want them to ignore where that money is going?

That is the consequence of bringing the country to ruin.
 

He3

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Libero

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Yes, but the suckers voted yes to Lisbon, didn't they.
All Europeans now.

Anyhow, maybe for the best.
Ireland has proved that it's incapable of self-governance.
I don't see how Lisbon makes much difference.

Once you owe huge sums of money, and are dependent on a single lender for more borrowing, it's to be expected that the lender in question will want to look at the books, engage in "consultation" and make "suggestions".

In light of this week's developments, the only thing to be said in favour of voting down the Lisbon Treaty (again) is that if we'd done so, the EU/ECB mightn't have given us more rope to hang ourselves, in the form of emergency support for more borrowing, and we'd have some Icelandic-style resolution. That would involve a lot more independence for Ireland than what we're set for now, but would be very messy and the concentrated short-term pain might have the Irish public hankering after closer integration with Europe and regretting a Lisbon No vote.

Just something to bear in mind...
 
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firefighter

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If you believe that you're even worse than the Government. The State has been living off the support of the ECB for over a year. The ECB are providing finance to banks to buy our bonds and where that fails they are buying the bonds themselves. There is little finance flowing into this State which is not a handout from Europe at present... and yet you want them to ignore where that money is going?

That is the consequence of bringing the country to ruin.
Do you think the Chancellor of the Exchequer would allow Eurocrats inside the Treasury Building?
 

johnfás

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Do you think the Chancellor of the Exchequer would allow Eurocrats inside the Treasury Building?
He wouldn't have much choice if he was living off funds from the ECB. The Chancellor of the Exchequer did just that between 1974 and 1976 when Denis Healey sought emergency financing from the International Monetary Fund.

Do you honestly think that the European Union would, or indeed should, write a blank cheque to a Government which has proved itself so obviously incapable of managing its own finances?

As I said, if you don't want European supervision of the money that Europe is bailing us out with come up with a suggestion of an alternative route. But heres the crooks of the matter - come back and post about it when you have costed it. Nobody in their right mind would lend Ireland money right now without an assurance of where it was going.
 
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CookieMonster

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Do you think the Chancellor of the Exchequer would allow Eurocrats inside the Treasury Building?
I think it's rather unfair of your to liken the UK's MP to the glorified County Councillors we have running the show here.
 

Monday Monday

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the facts;

1. Rehn on Tuesday said that Ireland needed to show multi-year visibility on its budget

2. Lenihan 36 hours later turns around and pledges to do exactly that

no question as to whose hand is really on the tiller

LOL I noticed that too.

Lenihan is just the office assistant wearing a suit and pretending he is the boss to a load of workers on the factory floor.
 

Anorakphobia

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The more the EC vets the less we are reliant on the competency and honesty of Lenihan and DOF.
Where the hell is the downside in that arrangement?
 

The Dude

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Its got nothing to do with the Lisbon Treaty. Outline how the situation would be materially different if Lisbon had not passed.
Don't expect anything but a 'post hoc ergo propter hoc' debate from the tin foil hat brigade here. Lisbon has nothing to do with it.
 


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