Separation of State and Church stalls - giving the nuns a maternity hospital!



ruman

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But this is the problem. When it comes to paying bills, the vatican says it's a local matter.

When it comes to local decisions, it's a vatican matter.

Taxpayers' money should not have this kind of carry on.

Between gifting money/land to the nuns and building private business premises for medical consultants its a wonder there is any money left for services
 

wombat

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Boylan has a bee in his bonnet about the church.
Maybe but I also suspect medical politics at work. No obvious reason (other than our taxes) why Holles street could not be moved to Tallaght or Blanchardstown but I suspect there are better doctors in Vincents.
 

RasherHash

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Peter Boylan was on Marian early. He says the nuns own the land and no catholic hospital in the world allows abortions, sterilisation etc. Apparently the nuns are waiting for the Vatican to decide before they can divest themselves.

Ergo the state should not spend a penny until we know it’s free of church laws.

Interesting how he came to be a spokesperson on abortion etc. Seems to still not be speaking to Rhona. He said she got it wrong on the nuns.
He also said abortion is going very well, and a few babies have been saved bc the mummies had time to think about it.
 

paulp

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The reality is that we have a public service model that's hoiking the costs onto the private sector with privately insured patients contributing €650M to the public system.

If you want to move to a pure public system you'll have to replace that €650m as well as coming up with more money to treat patients who no longer have access to private care.

And then you'll have to deal with the loss of public staff as the better pay and conditions in private sector lures them away.

Begrudgery is never a good starting point for building public policy.
Public hospitals have €650million in revenue from private patients. One would assume that in return for that €650million, those public hospitals provide a service, ie. beds, access to operating theaters, etc. So if the 650 goes, there are more beds etc available for public patients.

or, am I misunderstanding that?
 

wombat

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Public hospitals have €650million in revenue from private patients. One would assume that in return for that €650million, those public hospitals provide a service, ie. beds, access to operating theaters, etc. So if the 650 goes, there are more beds etc available for public patients.

or, am I misunderstanding that?
Sort of. Those private patients also pay for public services so the €650m will have to come from taxes which are mainly paid by the people who also pay for private insurance.
 

paulp

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Sort of. Those private patients also pay for public services so the €650m will have to come from taxes which are mainly paid by the people who also pay for private insurance.
true - but their taxes would cover the bed for 2 years time, not for today. ie. they get to skip the queue for that extra payment
 

Baron von Biffo

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Public hospitals have €650million in revenue from private patients. One would assume that in return for that €650million, those public hospitals provide a service, ie. beds, access to operating theaters, etc. So if the 650 goes, there are more beds etc available for public patients.

or, am I misunderstanding that?
What Wombat said. And remember that when someone elects to use their PHI they no longer get any benefit from their PRSI contributions; their insurance must pay the entire cost. In the past they only had to pay the difference between the public and private costs.
 

McTell

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No
Back to basics - we paid for all the nuns' hospitals with our ha'pence, not rome.

So why should they not give them back? We can be grateful that they ran them for x years, but the land and facilities were always morally "ours".

Unlike a private hospital paid for by investors from day 1.
 

Barroso

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Back to basics - we paid for all the nuns' hospitals with our ha'pence, not rome.
Schools, too.
I say give them to the community to run (the schools, not the hospitals), set up official parish councils or the like, and hand over running the primary schools to them.
 

ruman

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Back to basics - we paid for all the nuns' hospitals with our ha'pence, not rome.

So why should they not give them back? We can be grateful that they ran them for x years, but the land and facilities were always morally "ours".

Unlike a private hospital paid for by investors from day 1.
Oh if only the last bit were true. Taxpayers are funding private consulting rooms for medical consultants in our new hospital.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Very unlikely then that the consultants will be being charged for the use of facilities within the hospital. Which means there may also be questions around whether patients going private with a consultant would go to the head of the queue for x rays and MRI scans.
 

wombat

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true - but their taxes would cover the bed for 2 years time, not for today. ie. they get to skip the queue for that extra payment
I think the problem is that if private insurance is abolished, the deficit will be made up from taxes.
 

ruman

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Very unlikely then that the consultants will be being charged for the use of facilities within the hospital. Which means there may also be questions around whether patients going private with a consultant would go to the head of the queue for x rays and MRI scans.
The more cynical amongst us would conclude Saint Rhonas silence on the nuns was the price she was prepared to pay for favourible access for private business interests.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
The more cynical amongst us would conclude Saint Rhonas silence on the nuns was the price she was prepared to pay for favourible access for private business interests.
One would have to be very cynical to assume anything like that. I agree it is hugely likely to be the case.
 

wombat

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I'd be very wary of taking sides in these medical spats, Boylan seems to think he has scores to settle with whoever is running Holles street. The nuns will either get rid of the land or the new hospital will be built elsewhere. It will be a political decision, cost will be irrelevant.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
I can't see private sector consultants take a room free at a hospital without enquiring whether scans and x rays and other publicly paid for equipment is open to them as well.

The question then becomes in my mind what priority are these private sector consultants and their patients getting within hospital departments. And at what charge.

Because if they are getting those services free and their patients are queue skipping then I'd have a major problem with the hospital if I were paying toward its upkeep.
 

IDBI0

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I think the problem is that if private insurance is abolished, the deficit will be made up from taxes.
Don't forget that some of that tax money will be money that has been saved by the state when it no longer has to provide tax relief on private health insurance.
 


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