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Sexism & Men & Women in Ireland. Could Ireland learn from Sweden, Denmark, Norway, etc

Nemesiscorporation

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Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
13,878
How men and women in Ireland are supposed to maintain there gender roles and the sexism that supports such backward thinking has recently made me think a lot about Ireland. Read this article about it this morning
'Ireland could learn a hell of a lot from Sweden' - The Local

I have been thinking about the whole incident regarding the woman who died and the mentality in Ireland that supports such actions from some quarters and my experiences outside Ireland as I have travelled about.

In Sweden men and women do jobs equally. Men can look after children, women drive big trucks in mines and operate blasting equipment. It is not an issue at all if a man works in child care, as a hair dresser, etc. No one bats an eyelid or starts to bitch behind people's back like they do in Ireland.

I have encountered women in Sweden, Finland and Norway operating very heavy machinery, in engineering, working on building sites, military, etc.

I know women from Ireland who work outside Ireland as engineers, scientists, cutting hedges in local councils, etc, who upon going back to Ireland keep there mouths shut about it as they will get a lot of crap about it and for some bizarre reason have there sexuality questioned (not always but often enough to be noticeable). A long time and very good friend of mine was asked if she was a Lesbian by someone I know who works in human rights because she was an electronics expert, when last back in Ireland. The fact she was heavily pregnant for the 7th time and is married, did not seem to compute with a sexist woman (irish human rights activist) who assumed that because she was an engineer she had to be a lesbian. The fact her husband takes months of work every time she has a baby to help out flustered the human rights activist even more (He used to be a good boxer). Strangely in my wandering around Northern Europe, I have yet to encounter a lesbian engineer, computer programmer or heavy machinery user and those I have met all seem to work in offices.

In Ireland, I have noticed the sexist roles that people expect of women and men. Men are expected to work with machines and know computing whilst women are expected to work in the office, hair dressing, etc. I know there are a lot of women working in bio-sciences but they are limited compared to other countries.

Regarding myself. I do a lot of computer programming, attend a lot of scifi events, retro events, book clubs and re-enactor events. In Northern or Central Europe, that will not even make someone bat an eye and most people will want to know more. In Ireland I get a lot of crap because I have a lot of computers, know how to use most metal working machinery, can use a welder, etc. OK I know how to use a sewing machine and can make clothes from scratch, but that does not register after someone hears computer, machine, etc. I actually had to argue with someone 4 years ago when back that I was not a lesbian, for reasons that made no sense to me, just bcause I knew how to use some machines.

I believe that sexism is ingrained in Irish society, regardless of how far it has advanced in the last three decades. I think Ireland has a long way to go.

I personally think Ireland is very backward when it comes to equality across the board.

What is your opinion on this subject?


Not sure if this in the correct category or not.
 


ruserious

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Joined
Jan 3, 2011
Messages
29,085
I suppose it is ingrained to a certain degree as women up until the 50's had to leave employment upon getting married so for many generations, men were seen as the bread winner. This gave the impression that women were weak, and so when women eventually get onto the employment ladder, any woman who did manish jobs was considered to have had to have been Butch.
Butch then has so many connotations with lesbianism.
Interest points in OP.
 

RobertW

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Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,235
Article is nonsense and, quite frankly, embarrassing when the author talks of being able to walk down the street in Sweden without seeing a statue of the Virgin Mary.

Women and girls have equality of opportunity to do as they wish in Ireland.
 

Mr. Bumble

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
17,902
How men and women in Ireland are supposed to maintain there gender roles and the sexism that supports such backward thinking has recently made me think a lot about Ireland. Read this article about it this morning
'Ireland could learn a hell of a lot from Sweden' - The Local

I have been thinking about the whole incident regarding the woman who died and the mentality in Ireland that supports such actions from some quarters and my experiences outside Ireland as I have travelled about.

In Sweden men and women do jobs equally. Men can look after children, women drive big trucks in mines and operate blasting equipment. It is not an issue at all if a man works in child care, as a hair dresser, etc. No one bats an eyelid or starts to bitch behind people's back like they do in Ireland.

I have encountered women in Sweden, Finland and Norway operating very heavy machinery, in engineering, working on building sites, military, etc.

I know women from Ireland who work outside Ireland as engineers, scientists, cutting hedges in local councils, etc, who upon going back to Ireland keep there mouths shut about it as they will get a lot of crap about it and for some bizarre reason have there sexuality questioned (not always but often enough to be noticeable). A long time and very good friend of mine was asked if she was a Lesbian by someone I know who works in human rights because she was an electronics expert, when last back in Ireland. The fact she was heavily pregnant for the 7th time and is married, did not seem to compute with a sexist woman (irish human rights activist) who assumed that because she was an engineer she had to be a lesbian. The fact her husband takes months of work every time she has a baby to help out flustered the human rights activist even more (He used to be a good boxer). Strangely in my wandering around Northern Europe, I have yet to encounter a lesbian engineer, computer programmer or heavy machinery user and those I have met all seem to work in offices.

In Ireland, I have noticed the sexist roles that people expect of women and men. Men are expected to work with machines and know computing whilst women are expected to work in the office, hair dressing, etc. I know there are a lot of women working in bio-sciences but they are limited compared to other countries.

Regarding myself. I do a lot of computer programming, attend a lot of scifi events, retro events, book clubs and re-enactor events. In Northern or Central Europe, that will not even make someone bat an eye and most people will want to know more. In Ireland I get a lot of crap because I have a lot of computers, know how to use most metal working machinery, can use a welder, etc. OK I know how to use a sewing machine and can make clothes from scratch, but that does not register after someone hears computer, machine, etc. I actually had to argue with someone 4 years ago when back that I was not a lesbian, for reasons that made no sense to me, just bcause I knew how to use some machines.

I believe that sexism is ingrained in Irish society, regardless of how far it has advanced in the last three decades. I think Ireland has a long way to go.

I personally think Ireland is very backward when it comes to equality across the board.

What is your opinion on this subject?


Not sure if this in the correct category or not.
Sexism is still endemic in Ireland though, as you point out, things have improved greatly. What was explicitly sexist has mostly disappeared but implicit sexism remains largely untouched. What I find strange is how the feminist movement in Ireland seems to have disappeared. If women want more equality, then what exactly are they doing about it?
 

Nemesiscorporation

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Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
13,878
Article is nonsense and, quite frankly, embarrassing when the author talks of being able to walk down the street in Sweden without seeing a statue of the Virgin Mary.
Actually, i live just up the railway line from him. There is no statues of Virgin Mary outside religious places, unlike Ireland which is covered in them.

Women and girls have equality of opportunity to do as they wish in Ireland.
Bullsh*t.

I have been on the recieveing end of sexist nonsense from men who had no club what they were talking about, just as you don't due to your blinkered thinking, I have given up counting.
 

RobertW

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Joined
Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,235
Sexism is still endemic in Ireland though, as you point out, things have improved greatly. What was explicitly sexist has mostly disappeared but implicit sexism remains largely untouched. What I find strange is how the feminist movement in Ireland seems to have disappeared. If women want more equality, then what exactly are they doing about it?
What about issuing men with the same paternity leave for Ireland for what men get in Sweden.
 

Nemesiscorporation

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
13,878
Sexism is still endemic in Ireland though, as you point out, things have improved greatly. What was explicitly sexist has mostly disappeared but implicit sexism remains largely untouched. What I find strange is how the feminist movement in Ireland seems to have disappeared. If women want more equality, then what exactly are they doing about it?
Most of the feminists in Ireland I would class as sexist to be blunt. They come across to me as mirror images of sexist men.
 

RobertW

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Feb 11, 2011
Messages
20,235
Bull*t.

I have been on the recieveing end of sexist nonsense from men who had no club what they were talking about, just as you don't due to your blinkered thinking, I have given up counting.
No it's not bs.

You've spoken to some men with sexist views. . .so what?

All that says is that there are sexist men out there. . .as if we didn't know that.

I'm not getting your point here. If a girl in Ireland wishes to become anything there are no barriers to entry.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
32,694
How men and women in Ireland are supposed to maintain there gender roles and the sexism that supports such backward thinking has recently made me think a lot about Ireland. Read this article about it this morning
'Ireland could learn a hell of a lot from Sweden' - The Local

.
To answer your question.....no. A feminist disaster zone. Sweden was the 2nd wealthiest country in the world. It has slipped down the rankings as multiculturalism and loony leftism have taken over.
 

Clanrickard

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Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
32,694
Here is Naomi Wolf on rape in Sweden. Kind of blows the Local out of the water.

Sweden
 

Nemesiscorporation

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Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
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To answer your question.....no. A feminist disaster zone. Sweden was the 2nd wealthiest country in the world. It has slipped down the rankings as multiculturalism and loony leftism have taken over.
No, it has slipped down the rankings as neoliberalism infected everything, starting at the end of the 70's.
 

Mr. Bumble

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Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
17,902
Most of the feminists in Ireland I would class as sexist to be blunt. They come across to me as mirror images of sexist men.
Yes, the movement was hijacked by radicals. However, if women who simply want parity do nothing then nothing will change. Certainly they can't expect men to agitate for change. Incidentally, without wanting to distract from your OP or thread, I opened this thread last month: http://www.politics.ie/forum/health-social-affairs/198776-time-irish-feminists-find-something-else-do.html
 

Nemesiscorporation

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Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
13,878
Here is Naomi Wolf on rape in Sweden. Kind of blows the Local out of the water.

Sweden
I know all about the rape epidemic in Sweden. I once had to kick the sh*t out of an Algerian imbecile who tried to rape me, so I decided to share my Scotch-Irish culture with him instead.

There is very little difference between how the law treats rape victims in Ireland and Sweden.

However in general, Sweden is significantly ahead of Ireland in the area of gender equality.
 

RobertW

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Feb 11, 2011
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Yes, the movement was hijacked by radicals. However, if women who simply want parity do nothing then nothing will change. Certainly they can't expect men to agitate for change. Incidentally, without wanting to distract from your OP or thread, I opened this thread last month: http://www.politics.ie/forum/health-social-affairs/198776-time-irish-feminists-find-something-else-do.html
In your opening post of that thread you claim that women are under represented in the Oireachtas as if that's an issue.

Er. . Excuse me but the majority of people living in Ireland are females.

As far as I'm aware they have equal voting rights.
 

Nemesiscorporation

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Joined
Oct 2, 2011
Messages
13,878
Yes, the movement was hijacked by radicals. However, if women who simply want parity do nothing then nothing will change. Certainly they can't expect men to agitate for change. Incidentally, without wanting to distract from your OP or thread, I opened this thread last month: http://www.politics.ie/forum/health-social-affairs/198776-time-irish-feminists-find-something-else-do.html
The problem is, women who are not radical nutcases on insane agenda's, are ostracised from the womens groups in Ireland.
 

Mr. Bumble

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Messages
17,902
In your opening post of that thread you claim that women are under represented in the Oireachtas as if that's an issue.

Er. . Excuse me but the majority of people living in Ireland are females.

As far as I'm aware they have equal voting rights.
Your point would be valid if we pretend that there are no such things as gender roles, glass ceilings, misogyny etc.
 

asknoquestions

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Joined
Oct 25, 2006
Messages
2,951
I know all about the rape epidemic in Sweden. I once had to kick the sh*t out of an Algerian imbecile who tried to rape me, so I decided to share my Scotch-Irish culture with him instead.

There is very little difference between how the law treats rape victims in Ireland and Sweden.

However in general, Sweden is significantly ahead of Ireland in the area of gender equality.
I think the statistics are also reported differently. If a woman claims she was abused by a man over a long period of time then that goes into the stats in Sweden as hundreds of complaints of rape, most countries count it as one.

BBC News - Sweden's rape rate under the spotlight
 

Mr. Bumble

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Messages
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The problem is, women who are not radical nutcases on insane agenda's, are ostracised from the womens groups in Ireland.
Which begs the question - why don't non-radicals form their own movements?
 


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