Sexual harassment rife in Irish universities/social scene?

Cato

Moderator
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
20,400
Article from the Irish Times by Anna Joyce detail her and her friends experience of sexual harassment in Irish universities.

What I learned about sex at my Irish university

We tell our daughters, sisters and friends they can have the world but they just need to remember: never walk home alone; keep your keys between your burning knuckles squeezing tight, always aim for the throat because it’s a pressure point, bag against chest, if he touches you scream fire not rape because people respond quicker, eyes down, keep walking, don’t put your drink down, fists up with thumbs on top.
...

Events of this sort are so frequent they are normalised by victims. We can’t expect men to behave as functional members of society except when it comes to sex because that is a primal urge they cannot control (enter air quotes here) so, as someone once said to me, when my skirt was a bit too short, “we have to help them”. Needless to remark, I changed into a shorter skirt.

...

We victim blame instead of tackling the issues at hand because it is quicker and tends not to lead to a court appearance and a special bulletin on the Six One news.
All institutions in my opinion need to take the current state of sexual harassment amongst young people, even at the level of catcalling, more seriously.
Now before the usual mob pile in screaming about feminism (and yes, the author of the piece does herself few favours with the repeated references to the UCD 500 scandal that never was - it's almost as if she regrets that it wasn't true) and to stand back and look at the behaviour reported here. Is there a problem with the way a significant number of men are acting towards women and does it require a societal response? The behaviours detailed in the piece are unacceptable was for any man to act.

One approach has been consent classes for first year students, but that seems wildly optimistic if it is meant to correct behaviour that has been long habituated and embedded into the cultural milieu - it simply won't be reversed by classes. Perhaps the solution lies in a return to the intentional raising of boys with the ideas of gentlemanly behaviour and honour, or even, dare one say it, with the ideals of virtue and nobility.
 


GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,782
Read that. There were a number of different issues conflated as if at any given time, a specific woman might be the victim of all of them - which is possible, though unlikely.

These ranged from abusive boyfriends to concerns about street safety, as well as online harassment and drunken passes gone wrong.

Oddly enough, men can be victims of all of these too. Certainly they are several orders of magnitude more likely to be victims of random or targeted violence than young women.

What the author did was create the impression that all young women are constantly fighting off would-be gropers or date-rapists, while defending their honour against slurs that they put it about you know. Unless things have changed a lot from my day, and they may have, I dont believe it.

There is a loud-mouthed, obnoxious, deeply inadequate minority of young men who create a lot of hassle for young women and always have. Nothing new there. I think we need to send a message that far from being studly, they are pathetic.

When I was a student, other male students laughed at these guys and called them names. I think they probably still do. If they dont, then they need to. It cant be left up to the "professionals", like Gender Equality Officers :)
 

GDPR

1
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
217,782
I'd say she's great craic on a night out and a true delight to flirt with. Friends do need to look out for each other, both female and male, on a night on the town, to lessen the chance of a good night being ruined by some wierdo/nutjob. If someone's not interested, just move on and pluck up your courage with someone else, we all like a good healthy flirt.
 

Cato

Moderator
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
20,400
Another article on this topic in today's Irish Examiner: http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/louise-oneill/its-incredibly-disturbing-how-we-have-learned-to-internalise-this-behaviour-and-blame-ourselves-402061.html

Of course, not all men are like this. Most men are respectful and genuine and well-mannered and would never dream of behaving in such a way.
Those men are not the problem. But I read a great analogy recently.

Imagine I put a bowl of M&Ms in front of you and I tell you that 5% of them are poisoned.

“But come on! Take a handful. It’s only 5% of them that will kill you.”

Would you?

All of you good men out there should be furious but you should be furious at the 5% of errant men who are bringing your reputation into repute, not at the women who are attempting to call out that bad behaviour.

We need you to help us, to refuse to stand idly by while your friends make sexist jokes, who harass or catcall women.

As Eve Ensler said: “I am over the passivity of good men. Where the hell are you? You live with us, make love with us, father us, befriend us, brother us, get nurtured and mothered and eternally supported by us, so why aren’t you standing with us?

"Why aren’t you driven to the point of madness and action by the humiliation of us?”
 
D

Deleted member 45466

Article from the Irish Times by Anna Joyce detail her and her friends experience of sexual harassment in Irish universities.

What I learned about sex at my Irish university



Now before the usual mob pile in screaming about feminism (and yes, the author of the piece does herself few favours with the repeated references to the UCD 500 scandal that never was - it's almost as if she regrets that it wasn't true) and to stand back and look at the behaviour reported here. Is there a problem with the way a significant number of men are acting towards women and does it require a societal response? The behaviours detailed in the piece are unacceptable was for any man to act.

One approach has been consent classes for first year students, but that seems wildly optimistic if it is meant to correct behaviour that has been long habituated and embedded into the cultural milieu - it simply won't be reversed by classes. Perhaps the solution lies in a return to the intentional raising of boys with the ideas of gentlemanly behaviour and honour, or even, dare one say it, with the ideals of virtue and nobility.
Patriarchal ideals such as those may be frowned upon by certain radicals.

Boys must be getting fed up being told how to behave at this stage. It must be very confusing having different groups telling you how to behave, that you're a potential rapist, intrinsically bellicose, truculent, and not particularly bright.

I'd a fairly harsh upbringing, raised in poverty etc. etc., but I wouldn't trade that for being raised in a society that clearly does not like boys, or male values.

The article itself is hysterical, sensationalist rubbish. Only good for bog roll I'm afraid.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,160
Anna Joyce is the outgoing Gender Equality Co-Ordinator with UCD student union
'nuff said.
 

Clanrickard

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
33,160

Henry94.

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2015
Messages
1,925
All of you good men out there should be furious but you should be furious at the 5% of errant men who are bringing your reputation into repute, not at the women who are attempting to call out that bad behaviour.
If a man is a scumbag he is not the responsibility of other men. He is an issue for his family or the Gardai. Men should no more face collective guilt than any other group in society.

Consider

All of you good Muslims out there should be furious but you should be furious at the 5% of errant Muslims who are bringing your reputation into repute
All of you good Travelers out there should be furious but you should be furious at the 5% of errant Travelers who are bringing your reputation into repute
What progressive would stand over such sentiments? We need to be consistent and blame bad behavior on the people responsible. Not their race class or gender.

I have children in college and they have really good friends of both genders who seem to me to be far more aware and capable than my generation were.

There are of course a minority of scumbags but they tend to hang out with each other and there is little other men can do about them. Except avoid them.
 

silverharp

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2015
Messages
16,316
just a bunch of neurotic feminists trying to import US style feminist hysteria. No doubt we will hear in the future that 1 in 4 female students are raped on Irish campuses. Basically pick a useful course in college if you are a guy and keep away from the blue haired heffalumps doing low end communications and media courses
 

freewillie

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
7,295
If you can't lift her don't shift her
 

Rural

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
27,547
Pardon mefor thinking that all this stuff is terribly juvenile
It's terrible shyte altogether, generalisation after generalisation and badly written, nothing solid to back up her claims, (like where the figure 5% came from) and she actually says the words "air quotes". If Anna Joyce passed Pass English in the Leaving Certificate, I throw my hat at it!

But "terribly juvenile" describes it well!
 

Ulpian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
490
There are paragraphs of this article that complain about men judging women if those women sleep around.

This double standard was cemented for me when I was privy to a conversation amongst men regarding whether they would go out with a girl they have had sex with after the first meeting.

The answer was a chuckle and a resounding ‘No’. The words were not said but translated as: ‘you don’t date a slut’.

The thought of the kind of girls they bring home to their mother were still firmly rooted in the back of their minds.
The guys involved never used the word slut, but Anna Joyce tries to attribute it to them.

Let me be clear. Girls who can to sleep around are free to do so. Guys are equally free not to date girls who sleep around. Of course, girls who do sleep around might not like that after a while guys don't want to date them, but that's their choice. Guys who sleep around a lot get judged by girls for it equally.

Similarly, if a girl lets a guy take a photo of her naked or semi-naked or sends such a photo to a guy that his her choice. The article talks about "sharing images of sexual partners without consent" as if it is a crime. It's not - I can say that categorically because that's what the Irish Law Reform Commission said in 2014. Last year the U.K. introduced a specific crime dealing with this and maybe Ireland will follow suit, but right now there is no crime. What I would say is that Irish girls should be sensible enough not to permit or send such photos. I am married six years and my wife scrubs up well but there is no way that she would let me take a photo of her in a bikini never mind anything more racy.

The general thrust of the article is that women shouldn't take any responsibility and men should take all the responsibility, a sort of inversion of how we imagine the 1950s were.
 

cyberianpan

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
16,347
Website
www.google.com
She's just all butthurt over having succumbed to some dirty old bugger's overtures to bumsex au naturale... A KY Jelly dab in time would save 999 of these dumb articles

Cyp
 

RodShaft

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2016
Messages
9,167
Read that. There were a number of different issues conflated as if at any given time, a specific woman might be the victim of all of them - which is possible, though unlikely.

These ranged from abusive boyfriends to concerns about street safety, as well as online harassment and drunken passes gone wrong.

Oddly enough, men can be victims of all of these too. Certainly they are several orders of magnitude more likely to be victims of random or targeted violence than young women.

What the author did was create the impression that all young women are constantly fighting off would-be gropers or date-rapists, while defending their honour against slurs that they put it about you know. Unless things have changed a lot from my day, and they may have, I dont believe it.

There is a loud-mouthed, obnoxious, deeply inadequate minority of young men who create a lot of hassle for young women and always have. Nothing new there. I think we need to send a message that far from being studly, they are pathetic.

When I was a student, other male students laughed at these guys and called them names. I think they probably still do. If they dont, then they need to. It cant be left up to the "professionals", like Gender Equality Officers :)
Posts like this make me wish we weren't at daggers drawn. It's absolutely spot on.
 

Felixness

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 18, 2016
Messages
4,397
As a woman this sort of non story nonsense really annoys me. I've never had any male friends who aren't able to control themselves around women and frankly the feminazis seem to take offence if a man so much as glances in their general direction. I saw a story in a national newspaper about a woman having her arse squeezed on the Luas, now that's unacceptable but a true feminist would have smacked the guy in the face, either way it was not a story worthy of mentioning in a national newspaper.
 


New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top