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SF/IRA why not FF/IRA


realistic1

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The SF/IRA phrase is now part of normal speak for some anti-SF individuals, but was there ever a time in the past when Fianna Fail were addressed as FF/IRA? I know it can be classed as ancient history but FF had clear links to the Old IRA e.g. TDs, Councillors etc. Did FF enemies ever address them as FF/IRA and if not why not? Will SF lose the SF/IRA label when all the old guard retires or will the media and other anti SF individuals continue to use it mainly because of SFs economic policies etc.
 


FrankSpeaks

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The SF/IRA phrase is now part of normal speak for some anti-SF individuals, but was there ever a time in the past when Fianna Fail were addressed as FF/IRA? I know it can be classed as ancient history but FF had clear links to the Old IRA e.g. TDs, Councillors etc. Did FF enemies ever address them as FF/IRA and if not why not? Will SF lose the SF/IRA label when all the old guard retires or will the media and other anti SF individuals continue to use it mainly because of SFs economic policies etc.
So did Cumann na nGaedheal have links with the IRA, which in turn morphed into FG. 90 years is a lifetime a decade or less is not.
 

GDPR

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The SF/IRA phrase is now part of normal speak for some anti-SF individuals, but was there ever a time in the past when Fianna Fail were addressed as FF/IRA? I know it can be classed as ancient history but FF had clear links to the Old IRA e.g. TDs, Councillors etc. Did FF enemies ever address them as FF/IRA and if not why not? Will SF lose the SF/IRA label when all the old guard retires or will the media and other anti SF individuals continue to use it mainly because of SFs economic policies etc.
One reason would be that FF were never a political front for the IRA, they never stood over or supported a campaign of terror, never supported the deliberate targeting of civilians and in particular, for ROC's benefit, never supported the planting on no warning bombs in shopping centres.
 

Levellers

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SF/IRA was concocted by MI5 and it seems to be popular amongst the Cusacks, Williams, Bradys of the world.
 

statsman

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One reason would be that FF were never a political front for the IRA, they never stood over or supported a campaign of terror, never supported the deliberate targeting of civilians and in particular, for ROC's benefit, never supported the planting on no warning bombs in shopping centres.
For once we agree on something.
 

Protestant/Catholic=Irish

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One reason would be that FF were never a political front for the IRA, they never stood over or supported a campaign of terror, never supported the deliberate targeting of civilians and in particular, for ROC's benefit, never supported the planting on no warning bombs in shopping centres.
When did the IRA army council ever support the targeting of civilians? When did they ever begin an operation with the intention of taking innocent lives?

Perhaps you are thinking of the heroic and noble O' Donovan Rossa?
 

Spanner Island

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The SF/IRA phrase is now part of normal speak for some anti-SF individuals, but was there ever a time in the past when Fianna Fail were addressed as FF/IRA? I know it can be classed as ancient history but FF had clear links to the Old IRA e.g. TDs, Councillors etc. Did FF enemies ever address them as FF/IRA and if not why not? Will SF lose the SF/IRA label when all the old guard retires or will the media and other anti SF individuals continue to use it mainly because of SFs economic policies etc.
The thing is there were understandable reasons for the formation of the IRA.

It could even be argued there were understandable reasons for their actions against the British state during the 'troubles'.

They lost all legitimacy however, when they started targeting civilians by blowing them to bits in pubs, shopping centres, streets etc. both in NI and in Britain...

Terrorism is the key here... and when they crossed the line into that they lost any legitimacy they may have had.

As for SF, they were the 'political' arm of this Republican schizophrenia and remained so throughout all the atrocities...

SF's current leader is reputed by many to have been deeply involved in those atrocities... and yet he fails to admit any of it...

This taints all those who join SF and who are fine with being led by Gerry the Schizo imo...

Cos if they're fine with his bullsh!t denials then God only knows what they'll be capable of and put up with if they ever get into power...


As for the old IRA... completely different thing altogether...
 

GDPR

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When did the IRA army council ever support the targeting of civilians? When did they ever begin an operation with the intention of taking innocent lives?

Perhaps you are thinking of the heroic and noble O' Donovan Rossa?
No there are many examples I think, but I'm thinking in particular of the planting of a bomb in a crowded shopping centre in Warrington on the Saturday before Mothers day and giving no warning of where the bomb was. No other target available but innocent civilians, in particular children, two of whom were killed.

Nothing remotely heroic or noble about that. Deeply, deeply, shameful, yes, but heroic or noble, no.
 

Protestant/Catholic=Irish

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No there are many examples I think, but I'm thinking in particular of the planting of a bomb in a crowded shopping centre in Warrington on the Saturday before Mothers day and giving no warning of where the bomb was. No other target available but innocent civilians, in particular children, two of whom were killed.

Nothing remotely heroic or noble about that. Deeply, deeply, shameful, yes, but heroic or noble, no.
Excuse me? There were warnings beforehand. As an IRA spokesman said, "You don't provide warnings if it is your intention to kill".

I do not agree with the campaign in England - be it Thomas J. Clarke or Marian Price's one - but you are getting your facts wrong here. Warrington was a disgrace, that is why it is remembered, and so it should be. But these freak accidents occurred very rarely considering there was a war going on for over 30 years.
 
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Lain2016

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One reason would be that FF were never a political front for the IRA, they never stood over or supported a campaign of terror, never supported the deliberate targeting of civilians and in particular, for ROC's benefit, never supported the planting on no warning bombs in shopping centres.
Bullshyte.

The brits used to call the "Old" :roll: IRA terrorists.

They killed a fair share of civilians in their day...all armies do...
 

Protestant/Catholic=Irish

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They killed 400 civilians.
Yes, the 'Old' IRA took 400-500 innocent lives in a 2 year period. The Provisional IRA took about 1200-1500 in 35 years.

Think about that.
 

GDPR

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Excuse me? There were warnings beforehand. As an IRA spokesman said, "You don't provide warnings if it is your intention to kill".

I do not agree with the campaign in England - be it Thomas J. Clarke or Marian Price's one - but you are getting your facts wrong here. Warrington was a disgrace, that is why it is remembered, and so it should be. But these freak accidents occurred very rarely considering there was a war going on for over 30 years.
There were no warnings given for a bomb in Warrington, none whatsoever. There was a 30 minute warning given for a bomb somewhere in Liverpool. That sort of "mistake" where peoples lives are at risk is no accident, it's carelessness to the point of don't give a f*ck.
 

turdsl

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The founders of both Fine Gael and Fianna Fail committed murders that would compare
with the barbarity of the Mau Mau in Kenya. Telling us the old IRA were the good guys is just stupid propaganda,A bullet in the back of the head was just as sore 90 years ago as 30 years ago.
 
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Maothail Lad

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So did Cumann na nGaedheal have links with the IRA, which in turn morphed into FG. 90 years is a lifetime a decade or less is not.
True but FF were in power within a decade and some of it's members even carried guns in to the Dáil fearing that the Treatyites would not accept the election and will of the people. This is a good topic and well worth debate, one can't underestimate the role of modern mass media and wide spread education in prolonging hostility towards modern SF as links and references to the modern past are so accessible in such detail. Then one must consider the bitterness with which militants viewed FF for selling them out, the banning of the IRA,re-opening of Curragh,executions of IRA men, the almost complete abandonment of the North by Dáil Éireann.There was and is as much bitterness between old militant republican families in the 26 counties and FF, as there is between FF and FG.
Your point about it being 90 years ago should not be relevant because WW2 was a life time ago but is never forgotten. Because the treatyites came out on top and FF had vast success shortly after, they were able to play down the severity and untold damage of the civil war by rewarding there own people, the die-hards and militants that never accepted either the treaty or the FF option became a small and isolated community that had serious issues with FF and the sell out, these people would have loathed the very notion of referring to FF as IRA as they would have viewed that connection as long since broken.
In a modern context one thing worth mentioning for value on such a debate is SF achieved what FF never did and got the military wing to put weapons verifiably beyond use, the old volunteers like all Reapublican organisations before and after (up until the provies decommissioned) dumped arms in preparation for the next campaign. People on this site are very hostile to the provos because of memories of the troubles from their youth, however we also must consider that the medias portrayal of the conflict and SF were at times very questionable. Also many people and young people I know that make glib an uneducated comments like SF/IRA with no context are often very unaware of there own parties of choice military backgrounds. Often time on questioning these people why they say such things, they would comment about "thats how they are referred to in the house or homeplace", so you have people parroting old grudges and biases that often are ignorant of even there own families background of murder and mayhem

.
 

johnny365

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When did the IRA army council ever support the targeting of civilians? When did they ever begin an operation with the intention of taking innocent lives?

Perhaps you are thinking of the heroic and noble O' Donovan Rossa?
Really? So when the cowardly SF/IRA bomber left a bomb in a bin outside a McDonalds, the bomber and his Provo comrades had no intention of killing civilians?
 

Just Jack

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Yes, the 'Old' IRA took 400-500 innocent lives in a 2 year period. The Provisional IRA took about 1200-1500 in 35 years.

Think about that.
In fairness, there very few serious academics who draw a discernible distinction between the Provisional IRA and their predecessors.
 

cillian32

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FF turned a blind eye to the Irish citizens being brutally murdered in the north by british state forces.....They dont deserved to be mentioned in the same breath as the IRA.....COWARDS ......FF should only be known as IMF/FF ....Traitors one and all.
 

johnny365

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The British killed more civilians in Ireland than the IRA ever did you moron.
Troll, addrress the post i was replying too, the poster claimed the Provos never tragetted civilians, leaving a bomb in a bin outside a McDonalds is surely targetting civilians?
 

Protestant/Catholic=Irish

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There were no warnings given for a bomb in Warrington, none whatsoever. There was a 30 minute warning given for a bomb somewhere in Liverpool. That sort of "mistake" where peoples lives are at risk is no accident, it's carelessness to the point of don't give a f*ck.
There were warnings. The IRA made a clear statement afterwards explaining what happened and apologising for a botched operation.

Anyway, back to the thread. The OP asks why SF/IRA is still used as a label and not FF/IRA. You use Warrington as an example of why FF are morally superior to SF. Why then, does FF carry on the legacy of 1916 - with which they consider themselves the true inheritors of - even though the leader of this event went to England to carry out what he hoped would have been Warrington X 10.

Are you going to tell me that was ok as it was 90 years ago and Warrington was only 20? Because FF still bring up the memories and principles of the 1916 men, they still use them as people who should be admired and followed.
 

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