Shane Ross alcohol limit bill

Orbit v2

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What do people think of Shane Ross's drink driving bill?

Personally, I think the law is ok the way it is, and mainly needs to be enforced better.

50mg of alcohol is legal in most of the UK, and maybe partly in recognition of that, it is treated as an administrative offence here, where you get a FPN and points, to say nothing of being arrested and brought to a garda station to be tested etc. If you do it again within three years, you go to court. If I had to change something, I'd maybe change that limit to ten years or more. It's the kind of lesson that you should learn once only.

In that context, I think Ross's plan to name and shame drivers, and put them off the road with 50mg is vindictive and a bit petty. I haven't seen any rational argument from him, supporting his idea other than the usual - we must have ever stricter laws argument, but with poor enforcement, leading to unfair random outcomes, with many people flouting the law, and a small number being punished harshly.

Forgot to mention the main point, that the current system is graduated in the sense that the more over the limit you are the more harshly you are treated. It's not rational imo to be fully legal at 49mg but fully illegal and have a ton of bricks dropped on you at 50mg.
 
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eoghanacht

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This is more a vehicle for Shane.
 

statsman

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Why do we need a drink driving bill especially for Lord Ross? Is there something we should be told? ;)

Seriously, I favour zero tolerance for drunk or drugged drivers.
 

Spanner Island

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Sales of mouthwash are bound to take a dive.

It's ludicrous and typical of this country.

Just keep on introducing more stuff while failing to enforce much of anything that's already been introduced.
 

SeanieFitz

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I posted this yesterday on the DHR thread,

It targets the wrong people. people who have 1/2 drinks will stay at home (knock on effect of isolation, depression, community decline) and the people who "chance" drinking 4/5/6 + drinks will still do that, until they are caught. Enforce the law as it is

Like it or not, agree or disagree, pubs are an important social outlet in this country, particularly in rural Ireland and they are much more than a place to have pint. Over 2,000 have closed in the last decade
Pubs in crisis as over 2,000 locals call last orders - Herald.ie

we will regret the demise of the pub, particularly the family run pub. Young people now drink in houses rather than pubs where measures are non existent, behaviour unregulated, supervision zero and (most importantly) boundaries are not set. People cannot distinguish between what is/is not acceptable behaviour. Also there is no "mix" of ages/backgrounds, if you drink in a pub you will have old and young, friends and strangers etc

Drink and publicans have been demonised in this country and that, imo, is a shame.

It is also hilarious to see tourism agencies, operators and even politicians use the "pub crack" as a selling point for tourism when most of them are empty/near empty for most of the week. Gas to see the expressions on tourists faces when they walk into a pub of a weeknight expecting banjos, bodhrans, fiddles, dance, crack, laughter etc and to be met with...........emptiness
 

'orebel

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What do people think of Shane Ross's drink driving bill?

Personally, I think the law is ok the way it is, and mainly needs to be enforced better.

50mg of alcohol is legal in most of the UK, and maybe partly in recognition of that, it is treated as an administrative offence here, where you get a FPN and points, to say nothing of being arrested and brought to a garda station to be tested etc. If you do it again within three years, you go to court. If I had to change something, I'd maybe change that limit to ten years or more. It's the kind of lesson that you should learn once only.

In that context, I think Ross's plan to name and shame drivers, and put them off the road with 50mg is vindictive and a bit petty. I haven't seen any rational argument from him, supporting his idea other than the usual - we must have ever stricter laws argument, but with poor enforcement, leading to unfair random outcomes, with many people flouting the law, and a small number being punished harshly.

Forgot to mention the main point, that the current system is graduated in the sense that the more over the limit you are the more harshly you are treated. It's not rational imo to be fully legal at 49mg but fully illegal and have a ton of bricks dropped on you at 50mg.
I see no reason whatsoever to change it other than Lord Ross wanting to be seen to do something. One chance if caught between 50 and 80 is fair.

In the UK the penalties are much more graduated. ie, the time off the road starts at around 3 months and rises from there depending on level of alcohol. Here it seems to be an automatic 2 year ban from most judges which you can appeal after 12 months. That's an awfully long time to be banned from driving for someone who's only barely over the limit - particularly when some driving at twice the limit will receive the same ban.
 

'orebel

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Zero tolerance for any alcohol in the blood for any person driving.
Bollox. Even pilots can have limit of 20mgs. That's because you can have minimal levels of alcohol in your system naturally.
 

jpc

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Ross is a populist.
This is a cynical populist bill.
Logic be dammed.
 

Vega1447

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Does Ross propose licence suspension for speeding or as above for drug use?

Just showboating imo.
 

'orebel

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I posted this yesterday on the DHR thread,

It targets the wrong people. people who have 1/2 drinks will stay at home (knock on effect of isolation, depression, community decline) and the people who "chance" drinking 4/5/6 + drinks will still do that, until they are caught. Enforce the law as it is

Like it or not, agree or disagree, pubs are an important social outlet in this country, particularly in rural Ireland and they are much more than a place to have pint. Over 2,000 have closed in the last decade
Pubs in crisis as over 2,000 locals call last orders - Herald.ie

we will regret the demise of the pub, particularly the family run pub. Young people now drink in houses rather than pubs where measures are non existent, behaviour unregulated, supervision zero and (most importantly) boundaries are not set. People cannot distinguish between what is/is not acceptable behaviour. Also there is no "mix" of ages/backgrounds, if you drink in a pub you will have old and young, friends and strangers etc

Drink and publicans have been demonised in this country and that, imo, is a shame.

It is also hilarious to see tourism agencies, operators and even politicians use the "pub crack" as a selling point for tourism when most of them are empty/near empty for most of the week. Gas to see the expressions on tourists faces when they walk into a pub of a weeknight expecting banjos, bodhrans, fiddles, dance, crack, laughter etc and to be met with...........emptiness
Agreed but tbf many publicans haven't done themselves any favours with their price gouging on both alcoholic and non-alcoholic drinks.
 

hollandia

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Zero tolerance for any alcohol in the blood for any person driving.
In fairness, that's not feasible. There can be trace alcohol from things such as medicine and consumption of fruit. I'd be in favour of a lower limit than at present, but not zero.
 

Spanner Island

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It is also hilarious to see tourism agencies, operators and even politicians use the "pub crack" as a selling point for tourism when most of them are empty/near empty for most of the week. Gas to see the expressions on tourists faces when they walk into a pub of a weeknight expecting banjos, bodhrans, fiddles, dance, crack, laughter etc and to be met with...........emptiness
The Irish pub experience is regularly cited by tourists as a major draw for them... particularly among French and German visitors...

You can dismiss it all you like... but it is part of the appeal of this country.
 

Prester Jim

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Ross is a populist.
This is a cynical populist bill.
Logic be dammed.
As a Dub myself it does seem as if Ross is seeing things from a Dub's perspective, it is easy to make your way home after a pint in Dublin as it has public transport.
Personally I see law as good if it based on solid fact and evidence. If there is firm evidence that this law will improve road safety then go for it, but if it is just rhetoric and an easy way to look like you care but will do no good then we should focus on solutions that work, if that is rural subsidised buses or more traffic cops then that is what we should do.
 

cobhguy

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Jun 22, 2010
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What do people think of Shane Ross's drink driving bill?

Personally, I think the law is ok the way it is, and mainly needs to be enforced better.

50mg of alcohol is legal in most of the UK, and maybe partly in recognition of that, it is treated as an administrative offence here, where you get a FPN and points, to say nothing of being arrested and brought to a garda station to be tested etc. If you do it again within three years, you go to court. If I had to change something, I'd maybe change that limit to ten years or more. It's the kind of lesson that you should learn once only.

In that context, I think Ross's plan to name and shame drivers, and put them off the road with 50mg is vindictive and a bit petty. I haven't seen any rational argument from him, supporting his idea other than the usual - we must have ever stricter laws argument, but with poor enforcement, leading to unfair random outcomes, with many people flouting the law, and a small number being punished harshly.

Forgot to mention the main point, that the current system is graduated in the sense that the more over the limit you are the more harshly you are treated. It's not rational imo to be fully legal at 49mg but fully illegal and have a ton of bricks dropped on you at 50mg.
Enforcement is the key. Where I live every week, since the breath test scandal. The Garda have set up a random check point to breathalyze drivers on the same day of the week Thursday and at the same time 4pm at the same location. Completely pointless just looking to hit a target at the number of tests done.
 

SeanieFitz

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I see no reason whatsoever to change it other than Lord Ross wanting to be seen to do something. One chance if caught between 50 and 80 is fair.

In the UK the penalties are much more graduated. ie, the time off the road starts at around 3 months and rises from there depending on level of alcohol. Here it seems to be an automatic 2 year ban from most judges which you can appeal after 12 months. That's an awfully long time to be banned from driving for someone who's only barely over the limit - particularly when some driving at twice the limit will receive the same ban.
I really hope it doesn't "go through". All this righteous indignation by some politicians, Ross in particular, however they will still gladly accept the taxes/VAT, rates. PRSI, etc garnered from the drinks industry. This is no more than Ross wanting/craving a "legacy" policy so that when his detractors highlight the fact that he contributed sweet fanny adams during his time in politics he can say "axcuse mey, Oi phroduced dhis laglislation"
 

jpc

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I see no reason whatsoever to change it other than Lord Ross wanting to be seen to do something. One chance if caught between 50 and 80 is fair.

In the UK the penalties are much more graduated. ie, the time off the road starts at around 3 months and rises from there depending on level of alcohol. Here it seems to be an automatic 2 year ban from most judges which you can appeal after 12 months. That's an awfully long time to be banned from driving for someone who's only barely over the limit - particularly when some driving at twice the limit will receive the same ban.
Irish lawmaking is not about logic.
It's about optics.
Ross doesn't give a flying about the greater picture.
A graduated series of penalties would be a very good means of altering behaviour.
But hey
Zero tolerance is too good to not use.
Given Rosser realises his reelection prospects might not be the best.
 

SeanieFitz

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The Irish pub experience is regularly cited by tourists as a major draw for them... particularly among French and German visitors...

You can dismiss it all you like... but it is part of the appeal of this country.
that is my point
 

SeanieFitz

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Agreed but tbf many publicans haven't done themselves any favours with their price gouging on both alcoholic and non-alcoholic drinks.
true dat

Rural pubs aren't as bad though, pint of lager 4.50 ish, short 4ish, mixers free if willing to accept large bottle etc.

Its the bottled beer/cider etc that is killing them, no one will pay 4 to 5 euro for a bottle of beer/cider in a pub when the exact same bottle can be got in an off licence for a €1 or less
 


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